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Unemployment & Economically Inactive

Rudi Hedman

Member
Location
Caterham
Country
England
Some good government intentions here but, as we know and as the article says, Employers NI is likely to hit jobs and recruitment (Starmer’s Labour). That’s with regards the people frustrated with opportunities…


For people who don’t want to work… Cutting unemployment benefits for people who refuse to work can be done (because anything strict is more acceptable under Labour like reform of the NHS) I expect it’s more likely to happen with people without any dependents which means mostly no housing payments in Universal Credit which is where the big costs occur. But of course you can get people playing with looking for work by performing badly in interviews, even I suppose in the workplaces the job centre knows take on anybody. See Spud in Transpotting. Increasing funding in higher areas of unemployment is no doubt needed and I expect a lot of this is now done online or on the phone without enough time spent on cases.

For people who are better off not working because of the bundle of benefits they receive, it sounds like more reform is needed here, and again, I expect that anything slightly punitive will be more acceptable under Labour.

Childcare costs. This is a real problem, not only for employment but also for the birth rate of the nation. France’s birth rate at 1.79 per woman isn’t as low as Britain’s at 1.49 per woman but then their welfare bill and borrowing is much higher. (And their large amount of employment laws are ridiculous. The most damaging one puts companies off expanding above more than 50 employees)
 
My favourite hobby horse. ONS criticised for its bean counting.


This stuff is serious. How often do you see growth and balance of trade figures revised months later. If you can't get this stuff right how do you expect the people who make the big decisions to get them right.
 
My favourite hobby horse. ONS criticised for its bean counting.


This stuff is serious. How often do you see growth and balance of trade figures revised months later. If you can't get this stuff right how do you expect the people who make the big decisions to get them right.
If they're that far behind they should take on extra staff. Two birds/one stone.
 
The highest unemployment and lowest participation in the workplace is from which group?


if i recall correctly, such Statistical-breakdowns are illegal in France. How soon before the same happens here ?
 
if i recall correctly, it was Michael Portillo who said something like 'when you give money to poor people, all you do is help to create even more poor people'.
But he was probably paraphrasing some other wag. Anybody remembers where the quote originally came from ? Jeremy Bentham or John Stuart Mill maybe ?
 
if i recall correctly, it was Michael Portillo who said something like 'when you give money to poor people, all you do is help to create even more poor people'.
But he was probably paraphrasing some other wag. Anybody remembers where the quote originally came from ? Jeremy Bentham or John Stuart Mill maybe ?
It’s become more complex now than just people out of work and making more of them because we now have people on Universal Credit while in work.
 
It’s become more complex now than just people out of work and making more of them because we now have people on Universal Credit while in work.
it's clearly a complex area, not helped by covid.

There is some truth about the snowflake generation - one young lad i know quit his first job after graduation as it was 'affecting his mental health'. He has worked in a shop on a zero hours contract since.

I remember seeing a documentary of a struggling family with 2 kids. Husband worked full time as a delivery driver for Tesco and wife part time in a school, both reasonable jobs on paper.

They were on universal credit and used food banks.

Ultimately if you increase the minimum wage, as has been done regularly by govts, then these people will spend the extra money.
For those who won't engage in work you can offer support and advice but ultimately if the carrot doesn't work then the stick has to come out - cutting benefits.
However, many of these people not working have some kind of disability - both physical and mental
 
I hope for the country Labour's carrot plans work but I some how doubt it.

People who tell the job centre they refuse to work are idiots and few and far between.

I knew a guy who was unemployed in London for 8 years even though he had worked for Post Office counters. He did everything the Job Centre asked of him and never complained. They even made him do 8 weeks unpaid work in a charity shop .

He was smart enough to realise that as long as he "appeared" to show willing and went on course or schemes after which they would leave him along and they did. He knew how to game the system unfortunately there are a lot of people like that.

Until this or any other government wields the big stick any new rules they bring out will just be circumvented.

For instance there has been a massive increase in the number of people claiming they cannot work due to ADHD the increase defies statistical probability. Will the government force the issue and tell most of these to stop malingering? I seriously doubt it.

This then brings me to the black economy, as the French mayors have pointed out recently there are many migrants in the UK working illegally and of course you don't have to be a migrant to work illegally.

If it is so easy to work on the QT how many people who are claiming to be sick or out of work are supplementing their income by working in the black economy. Again the government needs to crack down on this so that these people realise that legal work is the only way forward.
 
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There are many forms of Benefit. Some benefits allow recipients to also work limited hours. There is something called "Attendance Allowance", which i don't quite understand, but had previously allowed people to work part-time hours, regardless of additional savings recipients had in the bank. I only mention this, as a couple of years ago, a work colleague of mine was claiming AE, whilst it was well known he had many £100,000's in the bank.
The rules have since been tightened.
There is definitely a culture of claiming benefits in many parts of the country. With parts of rural Wales only paying minimum wages for semi-skilled workers, it's not difficult to see some of obstacles to getting people working.

Plus being on benefits opens the doors to other things, such as:
Blue Parking Badges
Free Public transport
Mobility car scheme, etc, etc.
 
I should think there is sod all chance they will work -

One of the issues is equalizing the minimum wage across the board.

An 18 year old FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£19,500.00 Gross
£2,175.00 Ers NI
TOTAL = £21,675.00

A 21 year + FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£23,809.50 Gross
£2,8,21.43 Ers NI
£527.09 Ers Pension
TOTAL = £27,158.01

For an 18 year old they will see an increase of £2,730 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £3,846.54 to their cost.


For a 21 year + FT worker, FT worker they will see an increase of £1,501.50 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £2,545.27 to their cost.


I was looking at recruiting and building a team. I don't have deep pockets to fund it and I turn over about £140k on my own with one admin member of staff and one professional member. I make circa £60k a year before tax and draw circa £48k.

4 years ago I could have hired an experienced hire for £30k and an apprentice for circa £10k - total cost to me over 2 years £80k.

Now I'd be paying £45k for the same experienced hire and the apprentice (assuming they are 18 when they start) will cost me £15k in year one and then £19k at least in year two. Total cost to me over 2 years - £124k.

So to cover it now I near enough have to double my business - problem being it doesn't work like that and if I double the turnover I then need admin staff to support it. So it costs even more. I've also got to offer flexible working, sick pay from day 1, and be generally understanding (which I am with the current team) and add in my time getting them up to speed.

Then if I do make extra profit - the corp tax is 26.25% in every pound and then for me to draw it out I pay 34% personal tax.

I'm not a millionaire and never will be - but why the f*** would I want to increase my problems, have to over double my business and then give up 60% of what I make to the taxman. And yet in the eyes of Rachel Reeves I'm not "picking up the slack" apparently. Nor am I a "working person" in the eyes of Keir.

So by all means make work pay, but help employers as well.
 
it's clearly a complex area, not helped by covid.

There is some truth about the snowflake generation - one young lad i know quit his first job after graduation as it was 'affecting his mental health'. He has worked in a shop on a zero hours contract since.

I remember seeing a documentary of a struggling family with 2 kids. Husband worked full time as a delivery driver for Tesco and wife part time in a school, both reasonable jobs on paper.

They were on universal credit and used food banks.

Ultimately if you increase the minimum wage, as has been done regularly by govts, then these people will spend the extra money.

For those who won't engage in work you can offer support and advice but ultimately if the carrot doesn't work then the stick has to come out - cutting benefits.
However, many of these people not working have some kind of disability - both physical and mental
Sorry, I don’t get your full point on this. Do you mean it’s good for the economy and what they call ‘the multiplier effect’ because they have a ‘higher propensity to consume’ rather than save? Meaning all the extra money they receive recirculates around the economy.
 
I should think there is sod all chance they will work -

One of the issues is equalizing the minimum wage across the board.

An 18 year old FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£19,500.00 Gross
£2,175.00 Ers NI
TOTAL = £21,675.00

A 21 year + FT worker on minimum wage will now cost:
£23,809.50 Gross
£2,8,21.43 Ers NI
£527.09 Ers Pension
TOTAL = £27,158.01

For an 18 year old they will see an increase of £2,730 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £3,846.54 to their cost.


For a 21 year + FT worker, FT worker they will see an increase of £1,501.50 to their gross pay. The employer will see a increase of £2,545.27 to their cost.


I was looking at recruiting and building a team. I don't have deep pockets to fund it and I turn over about £140k on my own with one admin member of staff and one professional member. I make circa £60k a year before tax and draw circa £48k.

4 years ago I could have hired an experienced hire for £30k and an apprentice for circa £10k - total cost to me over 2 years £80k.

Now I'd be paying £45k for the same experienced hire and the apprentice (assuming they are 18 when they start) will cost me £15k in year one and then £19k at least in year two. Total cost to me over 2 years - £124k.

So to cover it now I near enough have to double my business - problem being it doesn't work like that and if I double the turnover I then need admin staff to support it. So it costs even more. I've also got to offer flexible working, sick pay from day 1, and be generally understanding (which I am with the current team) and add in my time getting them up to speed.

Then if I do make extra profit - the corp tax is 26.25% in every pound and then for me to draw it out I pay 34% personal tax.

I'm not a millionaire and never will be - but why the f*** would I want to increase my problems, have to over double my business and then give up 60% of what I make to the taxman. And yet in the eyes of Rachel Reeves I'm not "picking up the slack" apparently. Nor am I a "working person" in the eyes of Keir.

So by all means make work pay, but help employers as well.
Yeah they’re fvcking w@nkers, that’s for sure. I like your username and I’ll be posting once a week in the prison computer room after being sentenced for this post.
 
if i recall correctly, it was Michael Portillo who said something like 'when you give money to poor people, all you do is help to create even more poor people'.
But he was probably paraphrasing some other wag. Anybody remembers where the quote originally came from ? Jeremy Bentham or John Stuart Mill maybe ?
'When you give money to bankers, all you do is help create more wankers'.

There is truth in both statements.

It's like the argument made by some that to decrease immigration from Africa what you have to do is increase the standard of living in Africa (as if that's our responsibility). Whereas, while that might be a noble thing it actually results in the exact opposite result......Anyone with more than two brain cells understands that migration out of Africa isn't from their poorest but from their middle and lower middle class who can afford the fare and corruption along the way.

All you would do is increase the means for more of them to come.

I'm never going to say Africa shouldn't be helped along humanitarian lines, however this is not African land and our border controls should be far stronger and harsher as that's the only answer to that problem.....Without borders you do not have a country and we have been betrayed since before the nineties.
 
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