Tommy Robinson

PalazioVecchio said:
Many have speculated on it becoming modern & peaceful, like Christianity. There is, of course, an alternative course of events that could happen. Christianity to take a backward step and become as it was a thousand years ago. Fire, brimstone, cavalry and all.

Many religions have a history of persecuting non-believers.

Christian versus pagan: was Charlemagne’s conquest of Saxony the first crusade? – Historia Magazine

Angus Donald examines Charlemagne’s conquest of Saxony in the late 8th century. It was a campaign not just about territory but about religion: Christian versus pagan. Could it be considered the first 'crusade'?
historiamag.com historiamag.com
Click to expand...
A common mistake. Islam had it reformation in the 14th century, it was declared that all questions have been answered. Any theologist has to examine Islam within those bounds.

It ain't gonna happen.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
You're claiming to be able to tell what's true or how do you determine what is misinformation and what isn't?
How many times have you tried to dismiss others' opinions because you're "sure" something is or isn't true.
Click to expand...
I am not claiming anything! I express opinions, just as others do. Others who can disagree as you demonstrate above.

All I am doing is stating a basic fact. Who, or how, things are determined on whether they are true, or not, will vary. In my opinion that is generally when there is an overwhelming consensus of those universally acknowledged as the experts in a particular field, or when something has become clear and obvious to everyone but the stubbornly obtuse.

Misinformation is not simply the distribution of lies. It’s the deliberate distribution of lies for malicious purposes. That some facilitate that distribution whilst genuinely believing they aren’t lies doesn’t change that. It just demonstrates the way prejudices are being used by those seeking to harm us.
 
Wisbech often talks about trusting 'experts'.

For me, to justify having that title given to you then you are required to be geniunely correct about your field.

Let's take climate change, now I'm not taking a particular position on it but I'm reminded being told that the experts consulted with Gore over his 'An Inconvenient Truth' movie back in the mid 2000s.

Enough time has elapsed between that movie and the claims made by Gore in that movie using the opinions of 'experts' representing esteemed institutions.

1. Sea Level Rise: 20 Feet in the "Near Future"
  • Gore's Prediction: The film shows dramatic animations of Manhattan and Florida submerged under 20 feet (6 meters) of water, stating this could happen "in the near future" if Greenland or West Antarctica ice sheets collapse due to warming. He links it to current trends, implying acceleration within decades.
  • What Happened: Global sea levels have risen ~3.7 mm/year (2006–2023 per NASA satellite data), totaling ~6–7 cm since the film—far from 20 feet. IPCC AR6 (2021) projects 0.3–1 meter by 2100 under high-emission scenarios, with no evidence of imminent 6-meter collapse. Greenland/Antarctica are losing mass, but at rates yielding centimeters/decade, not meters (e.g., IMBIE studies show ~0.5 mm/year contribution from both).
  • Why It Failed: Models overestimated ice sheet instability; observations show gradual, not catastrophic, melt.
2. Hurricane Intensity and Frequency Surge
  • Gore's Prediction: "The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years" (1970–2005), and warming oceans will cause "stronger and more destructive" storms. He cites Katrina (2005) as a harbinger, showing maps of future flood risks.
  • What Happened: Global hurricane frequency has not increased; accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) is flat or declining since 2006 (per NOAA and Ryan Maue's data). U.S. landfalling hurricanes: No Cat 4/5 strikes from 2006–2019 (longest drought on record). IPCC AR6 finds "low confidence" in observed increases in intense tropical cyclones attributable to human influence. Katrina-scale events remain rare.
  • Why It Failed: Natural variability (e.g., Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) dominates short-term trends; the 1970s–1990s rise was partly due to better detection, not just warming.
3. Kilimanjaros Snows "Completely Gone" by Mid-2010s
  • Gore's Prediction: The film claims Mount Kilimanjaro's glaciers are melting due to global warming and will be "completely gone" soon (book specifies within a decade, i.e., by ~2016).
  • What Happened: Kilimanjaro lost ~90% of its ice since 1912, but ~15–20% remains as of 2023 (per NASA Earth Observatory and glaciological studies). Loss predates modern warming (started ~1880) and is driven mainly by precipitation changes/deforestation, not temperature (summit temps stay below freezing).
  • Why It Failed: Attribution error—local factors, not global CO2, are primary.
4. Arctic Ice-Free Summers by 2013–2014
  • Gore's Prediction: Cites scientists saying there's a "75% chance" the Arctic could be ice-free in summer "during the next 5 to 7 years" (i.e., 2011–2013). Film shows polar bears drowning due to lost ice.
  • What Happened: Arctic summer sea ice minimum: ~7.5 million km² in 2006; ~4.1 million km² in 2023 (NSIDC data)—a decline, but not zero. Lowest was 3.4 million km² (2012), still far from ice-free. No widespread polar bear population collapse (IUCN: stable or increasing in many subpopulations).
  • Why It Failed: Cherry-picked extreme model runs; ensemble projections (e.g., CMIP5) show ice-free conditions not until 2030–2050 under high emissions.
5. Global Temperature Rise and Thermometer Record
  • Gore's Prediction: Shows a graph implying unprecedented 20th-century warming, predicting continued sharp rise. Claims correlation proves CO2 causation.
  • What Happened: Warming paused/hiatus from ~1998–2013 (even IPCC acknowledged), then resumed. But no "hockey stick" acceleration beyond models. UAH satellite data: +0.14°C/decade since 2006—within natural variability bounds.
  • Why Partial Fail: Overreliance on Mann's contested hockey stick (criticized in NAS report for statistical issues).
Context and Defenses
  • Accurate Parts: Gore correctly highlighted CO2 rise, overall warming (~1.1°C since pre-industrial), and ocean acidification.
  • Gore/IPCC Response: Gore clarified some were "illustrative" worst-case scenarios, not firm predictions. Supporters note models have improved, and delays don't disprove long-term risks.
  • Sources for Verification:
    • Pro-failure: An Inconvenient Truth: A Global Warming Treaty (errors list by UK court, 2007—ruled 9 inaccuracies); books like Inconvenient Facts (Wrightstone, 2017).
    • Balanced: IPCC AR6 (2021); NOAA Climate.gov; NASA Vital Signs.
    • Pro-Gore: Union of Concerned Scientists fact-checks.
In summary, while the film's core message on anthropogenic warming holds (per consensus science), several high-profile, alarmist predictions overstated speed/severity and have objectively failed to date. This doesn't negate climate change but highlights issues with extrapolating extremes.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Wisbech often talks about trusting 'experts'.

For me, to justify having that title given to you then you are required to be geniunely correct about your field.

Let's take climate change, now I'm not taking a particular position on it but I'm reminded being told that the experts consulted with Gore over his 'An Inconvenient Truth' movie back in the mid 2000s.

Enough time has elapsed between that movie and the claims made by Gore in that movie using the opinions of 'experts' representing esteemed institutions.

1. Sea Level Rise: 20 Feet in the "Near Future"
  • Gore's Prediction: The film shows dramatic animations of Manhattan and Florida submerged under 20 feet (6 meters) of water, stating this could happen "in the near future" if Greenland or West Antarctica ice sheets collapse due to warming. He links it to current trends, implying acceleration within decades.
  • What Happened: Global sea levels have risen ~3.7 mm/year (2006–2023 per NASA satellite data), totaling ~6–7 cm since the film—far from 20 feet. IPCC AR6 (2021) projects 0.3–1 meter by 2100 under high-emission scenarios, with no evidence of imminent 6-meter collapse. Greenland/Antarctica are losing mass, but at rates yielding centimeters/decade, not meters (e.g., IMBIE studies show ~0.5 mm/year contribution from both).
  • Why It Failed: Models overestimated ice sheet instability; observations show gradual, not catastrophic, melt.
2. Hurricane Intensity and Frequency Surge
  • Gore's Prediction: "The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years" (1970–2005), and warming oceans will cause "stronger and more destructive" storms. He cites Katrina (2005) as a harbinger, showing maps of future flood risks.
  • What Happened: Global hurricane frequency has not increased; accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) is flat or declining since 2006 (per NOAA and Ryan Maue's data). U.S. landfalling hurricanes: No Cat 4/5 strikes from 2006–2019 (longest drought on record). IPCC AR6 finds "low confidence" in observed increases in intense tropical cyclones attributable to human influence. Katrina-scale events remain rare.
  • Why It Failed: Natural variability (e.g., Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) dominates short-term trends; the 1970s–1990s rise was partly due to better detection, not just warming.
3. Kilimanjaros Snows "Completely Gone" by Mid-2010s
  • Gore's Prediction: The film claims Mount Kilimanjaro's glaciers are melting due to global warming and will be "completely gone" soon (book specifies within a decade, i.e., by ~2016).
  • What Happened: Kilimanjaro lost ~90% of its ice since 1912, but ~15–20% remains as of 2023 (per NASA Earth Observatory and glaciological studies). Loss predates modern warming (started ~1880) and is driven mainly by precipitation changes/deforestation, not temperature (summit temps stay below freezing).
  • Why It Failed: Attribution error—local factors, not global CO2, are primary.
4. Arctic Ice-Free Summers by 2013–2014
  • Gore's Prediction: Cites scientists saying there's a "75% chance" the Arctic could be ice-free in summer "during the next 5 to 7 years" (i.e., 2011–2013). Film shows polar bears drowning due to lost ice.
  • What Happened: Arctic summer sea ice minimum: ~7.5 million km² in 2006; ~4.1 million km² in 2023 (NSIDC data)—a decline, but not zero. Lowest was 3.4 million km² (2012), still far from ice-free. No widespread polar bear population collapse (IUCN: stable or increasing in many subpopulations).
  • Why It Failed: Cherry-picked extreme model runs; ensemble projections (e.g., CMIP5) show ice-free conditions not until 2030–2050 under high emissions.
5. Global Temperature Rise and Thermometer Record
  • Gore's Prediction: Shows a graph implying unprecedented 20th-century warming, predicting continued sharp rise. Claims correlation proves CO2 causation.
  • What Happened: Warming paused/hiatus from ~1998–2013 (even IPCC acknowledged), then resumed. But no "hockey stick" acceleration beyond models. UAH satellite data: +0.14°C/decade since 2006—within natural variability bounds.
  • Why Partial Fail: Overreliance on Mann's contested hockey stick (criticized in NAS report for statistical issues).
Context and Defenses
  • Accurate Parts: Gore correctly highlighted CO2 rise, overall warming (~1.1°C since pre-industrial), and ocean acidification.
  • Gore/IPCC Response: Gore clarified some were "illustrative" worst-case scenarios, not firm predictions. Supporters note models have improved, and delays don't disprove long-term risks.
  • Sources for Verification:
    • Pro-failure: An Inconvenient Truth: A Global Warming Treaty (errors list by UK court, 2007—ruled 9 inaccuracies); books like Inconvenient Facts (Wrightstone, 2017).
    • Balanced: IPCC AR6 (2021); NOAA Climate.gov; NASA Vital Signs.
    • Pro-Gore: Union of Concerned Scientists fact-checks.
In summary, while the film's core message on anthropogenic warming holds (per consensus science), several high-profile, alarmist predictions overstated speed/severity and have objectively failed to date. This doesn't negate climate change but highlights issues with extrapolating extremes.
Click to expand...
Thanks for highlighting the absolute nonsense this film spouted, climate change is now an industry with thousands stealing a living from it.
 
HKOwen said:
Thanks for highlighting the absolute nonsense this film spouted, climate change is now an industry with thousands stealing a living from it.
Click to expand...
10,000 years ago you could walk from Norfolk to The Netherlands through forests. Then the ice melted and flooded what is now the North Sea. Somebody must have had a diesel generator running 24/7 to cause that, or perhaps it was just natural due to the Earth’s tilt and its position within the Solar System. But you can’t tax that…
 
Stirlingsays said:
Wisbech often talks about trusting 'experts'.

For me, to justify having that title given to you then you are required to be geniunely correct about your field.

Let's take climate change, now I'm not taking a particular position on it but I'm reminded being told that the experts consulted with Gore over his 'An Inconvenient Truth' movie back in the mid 2000s.

Enough time has elapsed between that movie and the claims made by Gore in that movie using the opinions of 'experts' representing esteemed institutions.

1. Sea Level Rise: 20 Feet in the "Near Future"
  • Gore's Prediction: The film shows dramatic animations of Manhattan and Florida submerged under 20 feet (6 meters) of water, stating this could happen "in the near future" if Greenland or West Antarctica ice sheets collapse due to warming. He links it to current trends, implying acceleration within decades.
  • What Happened: Global sea levels have risen ~3.7 mm/year (2006–2023 per NASA satellite data), totaling ~6–7 cm since the film—far from 20 feet. IPCC AR6 (2021) projects 0.3–1 meter by 2100 under high-emission scenarios, with no evidence of imminent 6-meter collapse. Greenland/Antarctica are losing mass, but at rates yielding centimeters/decade, not meters (e.g., IMBIE studies show ~0.5 mm/year contribution from both).
  • Why It Failed: Models overestimated ice sheet instability; observations show gradual, not catastrophic, melt.
2. Hurricane Intensity and Frequency Surge
  • Gore's Prediction: "The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years" (1970–2005), and warming oceans will cause "stronger and more destructive" storms. He cites Katrina (2005) as a harbinger, showing maps of future flood risks.
  • What Happened: Global hurricane frequency has not increased; accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) is flat or declining since 2006 (per NOAA and Ryan Maue's data). U.S. landfalling hurricanes: No Cat 4/5 strikes from 2006–2019 (longest drought on record). IPCC AR6 finds "low confidence" in observed increases in intense tropical cyclones attributable to human influence. Katrina-scale events remain rare.
  • Why It Failed: Natural variability (e.g., Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) dominates short-term trends; the 1970s–1990s rise was partly due to better detection, not just warming.
3. Kilimanjaros Snows "Completely Gone" by Mid-2010s
  • Gore's Prediction: The film claims Mount Kilimanjaro's glaciers are melting due to global warming and will be "completely gone" soon (book specifies within a decade, i.e., by ~2016).
  • What Happened: Kilimanjaro lost ~90% of its ice since 1912, but ~15–20% remains as of 2023 (per NASA Earth Observatory and glaciological studies). Loss predates modern warming (started ~1880) and is driven mainly by precipitation changes/deforestation, not temperature (summit temps stay below freezing).
  • Why It Failed: Attribution error—local factors, not global CO2, are primary.
4. Arctic Ice-Free Summers by 2013–2014
  • Gore's Prediction: Cites scientists saying there's a "75% chance" the Arctic could be ice-free in summer "during the next 5 to 7 years" (i.e., 2011–2013). Film shows polar bears drowning due to lost ice.
  • What Happened: Arctic summer sea ice minimum: ~7.5 million km² in 2006; ~4.1 million km² in 2023 (NSIDC data)—a decline, but not zero. Lowest was 3.4 million km² (2012), still far from ice-free. No widespread polar bear population collapse (IUCN: stable or increasing in many subpopulations).
  • Why It Failed: Cherry-picked extreme model runs; ensemble projections (e.g., CMIP5) show ice-free conditions not until 2030–2050 under high emissions.
5. Global Temperature Rise and Thermometer Record
  • Gore's Prediction: Shows a graph implying unprecedented 20th-century warming, predicting continued sharp rise. Claims correlation proves CO2 causation.
  • What Happened: Warming paused/hiatus from ~1998–2013 (even IPCC acknowledged), then resumed. But no "hockey stick" acceleration beyond models. UAH satellite data: +0.14°C/decade since 2006—within natural variability bounds.
  • Why Partial Fail: Overreliance on Mann's contested hockey stick (criticized in NAS report for statistical issues).
Context and Defenses
  • Accurate Parts: Gore correctly highlighted CO2 rise, overall warming (~1.1°C since pre-industrial), and ocean acidification.
  • Gore/IPCC Response: Gore clarified some were "illustrative" worst-case scenarios, not firm predictions. Supporters note models have improved, and delays don't disprove long-term risks.
  • Sources for Verification:
    • Pro-failure: An Inconvenient Truth: A Global Warming Treaty (errors list by UK court, 2007—ruled 9 inaccuracies); books like Inconvenient Facts (Wrightstone, 2017).
    • Balanced: IPCC AR6 (2021); NOAA Climate.gov; NASA Vital Signs.
    • Pro-Gore: Union of Concerned Scientists fact-checks.
In summary, while the film's core message on anthropogenic warming holds (per consensus science), several high-profile, alarmist predictions overstated speed/severity and have objectively failed to date. This doesn't negate climate change but highlights issues with extrapolating extremes.
Click to expand...
I posted around 30 newspaper clippings of incrediblely wrong climate change predictions going back to the 50s and up until recently times; on the climate change thread.

These articles were from mainstream American and British newspapers citing so called experts. This included university studies.

To be so wildly wrong with the predictions would probably suggest misinformation.

Predicting an ice age in the early 70s was one.

But apparently according to some; the throughly proven correct climate skeptics and "covid deniers" were peddling misinformation.

I understand according to Lord monkton (who's a bit of a character) the Al Gore films were banned from some schools in Europe for being misinformation and bad science.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Wisbech often talks about trusting 'experts'.

For me, to justify having that title given to you then you are required to be geniunely correct about your field.

Let's take climate change, now I'm not taking a particular position on it but I'm reminded being told that the experts consulted with Gore over his 'An Inconvenient Truth' movie back in the mid 2000s.

Enough time has elapsed between that movie and the claims made by Gore in that movie using the opinions of 'experts' representing esteemed institutions.

1. Sea Level Rise: 20 Feet in the "Near Future"
  • Gore's Prediction: The film shows dramatic animations of Manhattan and Florida submerged under 20 feet (6 meters) of water, stating this could happen "in the near future" if Greenland or West Antarctica ice sheets collapse due to warming. He links it to current trends, implying acceleration within decades.
  • What Happened: Global sea levels have risen ~3.7 mm/year (2006–2023 per NASA satellite data), totaling ~6–7 cm since the film—far from 20 feet. IPCC AR6 (2021) projects 0.3–1 meter by 2100 under high-emission scenarios, with no evidence of imminent 6-meter collapse. Greenland/Antarctica are losing mass, but at rates yielding centimeters/decade, not meters (e.g., IMBIE studies show ~0.5 mm/year contribution from both).
  • Why It Failed: Models overestimated ice sheet instability; observations show gradual, not catastrophic, melt.
2. Hurricane Intensity and Frequency Surge
  • Gore's Prediction: "The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes has almost doubled in the last 30 years" (1970–2005), and warming oceans will cause "stronger and more destructive" storms. He cites Katrina (2005) as a harbinger, showing maps of future flood risks.
  • What Happened: Global hurricane frequency has not increased; accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) is flat or declining since 2006 (per NOAA and Ryan Maue's data). U.S. landfalling hurricanes: No Cat 4/5 strikes from 2006–2019 (longest drought on record). IPCC AR6 finds "low confidence" in observed increases in intense tropical cyclones attributable to human influence. Katrina-scale events remain rare.
  • Why It Failed: Natural variability (e.g., Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) dominates short-term trends; the 1970s–1990s rise was partly due to better detection, not just warming.
3. Kilimanjaros Snows "Completely Gone" by Mid-2010s
  • Gore's Prediction: The film claims Mount Kilimanjaro's glaciers are melting due to global warming and will be "completely gone" soon (book specifies within a decade, i.e., by ~2016).
  • What Happened: Kilimanjaro lost ~90% of its ice since 1912, but ~15–20% remains as of 2023 (per NASA Earth Observatory and glaciological studies). Loss predates modern warming (started ~1880) and is driven mainly by precipitation changes/deforestation, not temperature (summit temps stay below freezing).
  • Why It Failed: Attribution error—local factors, not global CO2, are primary.
4. Arctic Ice-Free Summers by 2013–2014
  • Gore's Prediction: Cites scientists saying there's a "75% chance" the Arctic could be ice-free in summer "during the next 5 to 7 years" (i.e., 2011–2013). Film shows polar bears drowning due to lost ice.
  • What Happened: Arctic summer sea ice minimum: ~7.5 million km² in 2006; ~4.1 million km² in 2023 (NSIDC data)—a decline, but not zero. Lowest was 3.4 million km² (2012), still far from ice-free. No widespread polar bear population collapse (IUCN: stable or increasing in many subpopulations).
  • Why It Failed: Cherry-picked extreme model runs; ensemble projections (e.g., CMIP5) show ice-free conditions not until 2030–2050 under high emissions.
5. Global Temperature Rise and Thermometer Record
  • Gore's Prediction: Shows a graph implying unprecedented 20th-century warming, predicting continued sharp rise. Claims correlation proves CO2 causation.
  • What Happened: Warming paused/hiatus from ~1998–2013 (even IPCC acknowledged), then resumed. But no "hockey stick" acceleration beyond models. UAH satellite data: +0.14°C/decade since 2006—within natural variability bounds.
  • Why Partial Fail: Overreliance on Mann's contested hockey stick (criticized in NAS report for statistical issues).
Context and Defenses
  • Accurate Parts: Gore correctly highlighted CO2 rise, overall warming (~1.1°C since pre-industrial), and ocean acidification.
  • Gore/IPCC Response: Gore clarified some were "illustrative" worst-case scenarios, not firm predictions. Supporters note models have improved, and delays don't disprove long-term risks.
  • Sources for Verification:
    • Pro-failure: An Inconvenient Truth: A Global Warming Treaty (errors list by UK court, 2007—ruled 9 inaccuracies); books like Inconvenient Facts (Wrightstone, 2017).
    • Balanced: IPCC AR6 (2021); NOAA Climate.gov; NASA Vital Signs.
    • Pro-Gore: Union of Concerned Scientists fact-checks.
In summary, while the film's core message on anthropogenic warming holds (per consensus science), several high-profile, alarmist predictions overstated speed/severity and have objectively failed to date. This doesn't negate climate change but highlights issues with extrapolating extremes.
Click to expand...
Producing a movie highlighting the potential devastation of a worst case scenario as a wake up call is no reason to question the input of experts. I used to know a world leading expert on climate change. Not only did she convince me, beyond not the smallest of doubt, that it is real she would never have made precise predictions. Only ever a range of scenarios.

That Gore decided it was necessary to make people concerned was a political decision to shake us out of the apathy that continues to exist in some.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Producing a movie highlighting the potential devastation of a worst case scenario as a wake up call is no reason to question the input of experts. I used to know a world leading expert on climate change. Not only did she convince me, beyond not the smallest of doubt, that it is real she would never have made precise predictions. Only ever a range of scenarios.

That Gore decided it was necessary to make people concerned was a political decision to shake us out of the apathy that continues to exist in some.
Click to expand...
Sure. Like those experts who thought using CFCs and adding lead to petrol were great ideas. Or tax breaks being given to people buying diesel vehicles.
 
Common Sense Club said:
10,000 years ago you could walk from Norfolk to The Netherlands through forests. Then the ice melted and flooded what is now the North Sea. Somebody must have had a diesel generator running 24/7 to cause that, or perhaps it was just natural due to the Earth’s tilt and its position within the Solar System. But you can’t tax that…
Click to expand...
No expert on climate change will deny that natural climate change is a real phenomenon. Only that it occurs over very long time periods, which allow us to react and adjust.

It’s not the same with man made climate change which is an entirely different phenomenon.

Pretending it’s not happening and trying to ignore the need to respond is both selfish and irresponsible. Suggesting it’s only a means to tax us is the excuse of the wilfully ignorant.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
No expert on climate change will deny that natural climate change is a real phenomenon. Only that it occurs over very long time periods, which allow us to react and adjust.

It’s not the same with man made climate change which is an entirely different phenomenon.

Pretending it’s not happening and trying to ignore the need to respond is both selfish and irresponsible. Suggesting it’s only a means to tax us is the excuse of the wilfully ignorant.
Click to expand...
..... and tight fisted.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
Sure. Like those experts who thought using CFCs and adding lead to petrol were great ideas. Or tax breaks being given to people buying diesel vehicles.
Click to expand...
Of course. Scientific knowledge is constantly expanding. We can only base decisions on what we know now. Some of which will be updated by new knowledge.

That though is no reason not to make decisions, or refuse to accept them, based on the best knowledge available at the time, just because you think you know better.

If society is going to operate effectively then, in a democracy, it has to do so by consensus. Or we end up with anarchy.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Of course. Scientific knowledge is constantly expanding. We can only base decisions on what we know now. Some of which will be updated by new knowledge.

That though is no reason not to make decisions, or refuse to accept them, based on the best knowledge available at the time, just because you think you know better.

If society is going to operate effectively then, in a democracy, it has to do so by consensus. Or we end up with anarchy.
Click to expand...
People's faith in governments and 'experts' always makes me smile.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
No expert on climate change will deny that natural climate change is a real phenomenon. Only that it occurs over very long time periods, which allow us to react and adjust.

It’s not the same with man made climate change which is an entirely different phenomenon.

Pretending it’s not happening and trying to ignore the need to respond is both selfish and irresponsible. Suggesting it’s only a means to tax us is the excuse of the wilfully ignorant.
Click to expand...

Thats not true tho, if the earth's life cycle is 24 hours, man made climate has sped it up by 1 second. We have enough time to adjust and react to both natural and man made climate change.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Of course. Scientific knowledge is constantly expanding. We can only base decisions on what we know now. Some of which will be updated by new knowledge.

That though is no reason not to make decisions, or refuse to accept them, based on the best knowledge available at the time, just because you think you know better.

If society is going to operate effectively then, in a democracy, it has to do so by consensus. Or we end up with anarchy.
Click to expand...
And when the consensus changes again all the climate change alarmists will look a bit daft.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Producing a movie highlighting the potential devastation of a worst case scenario as a wake up call is no reason to question the input of experts. I used to know a world leading expert on climate change. Not only did she convince me, beyond not the smallest of doubt, that it is real she would never have made precise predictions. Only ever a range of scenarios.

That Gore decided it was necessary to make people concerned was a political decision to shake us out of the apathy that continues to exist in some.
Click to expand...
You believe Greta Thunberg?
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Of course. Scientific knowledge is constantly expanding. We can only base decisions on what we know now. Some of which will be updated by new knowledge.

That though is no reason not to make decisions, or refuse to accept them, based on the best knowledge available at the time, just because you think you know better.

If society is going to operate effectively then, in a democracy, it has to do so by consensus. Or we end up with anarchy.
Click to expand...
Have you considered said consensus across all threads on HOL. No you haven’t so your morality sits very adjacent to your hypocrisy. Absolute BS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Holmesdale Online Shop

Back
Top