The Politics of 'Climate-change'

[Wisbech Eagle]

That ice age arrived quickly.

Volcanoes Can Affect Climate

www.usgs.gov

Of course they can. So can asteroid strikes.

Any unpredicted event has the capacity to do so and create an emergency. We are getting better at making the predictions and making plans on our responses.

We aren’t discussing them though. We are discussing the man made climate change that started with the Industrial Revolution and is continuing. Not the extremely slow natural cycles that the earth experiences or the occasional event that creates problems.

We need to keep our eyes on the ball and deal with the real issues. Not pretend they aren’t real or cannot be overcome because an event may happen.

I trust you actually read the article you referenced! It fully supports what I have just said.

 

[Spindle]

I rather think technology will eventually do that.

If they are going to develop tech to terraform Mars atmospherically then it's just a matter of when something starts here.....and I should imagine that's just one of several approaches that will be looked at.

However the promotion of wearing significant hair-shirts.....complete waste of energy even mentioning it.

You'd need world wide communism....which is about as popular as a rancid fart in a confessional box.

You see I find this "Mars yes, Earth no", argument incredible. You have people who advocate this, "It's not man made on earth we couldn't do that, but YEAH we can man make an entire atmosphere on another planet" 😆

Firstly, we're taking nowhere near enough action now, and it's too late anyway. It's too late because temperature simply follows gas in the atmosphere with some lag, and the consequences of that temperature increase lag behind that (glacial melt, extreme weather events) and net zero is simply stopping the Increase of that gas. Therefore stopping is just stopping turning up the oven, the consequences are already 'baked in' pardon the pun. So stop today and Greenland will still melt.

Therefore we have to decrease atmospheric CO2, and we are hardly going to manage that at the enormous rate that we've been pumping it out, then there will be lag. So expect those sea level rises, they are calculated, and good luck with all those nuclear sites globally because one thing about nukes is that it requires a lot of water for cooling, so most are built on the coast.

Secondly, the terraforming of Mars as a planet to escape to is just utter fantasy, this isn't Battlestar Galactica.

You don't need communism but you do need to guide and incentivise, and you need to criminalise political bribery (the oil boys have just enough senators on their payrolls to get whatever they need for example). I have no problem with subsidy, it's used everywhere, and Trump wouldn't even be where he is without that if you look at his father's business.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Of course they can. So can asteroid strikes.

Any unpredicted event has the capacity to do so and create an emergency. We are getting better at making the predictions and making plans on our responses.

We aren’t discussing them though. We are discussing the man made climate change that started with the Industrial Revolution and is continuing. Not the extremely slow natural cycles that the earth experiences or the occasional event that creates problems.

We need to keep our eyes on the ball and deal with the real issues. Not pretend they aren’t real or cannot be overcome because an event may happen.

I trust you actually read the article you referenced! It fully supports what I have just said.

It also said that volcanos contribute to the situation. Ergo it is not 100 % man made. I shall take your heartfelt apology as implied.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Even if there were they contribute 0.0 % to climate change.

To predicted climate change nothing at all. After each event the predictions might have to be varied very marginally but by so little as to be inconsequential.

This argument is just a distraction.

 

[Spindle]

At least being embroiled in semantics is a different charge from being a pedant. Or a pendant.
Why get so upset about an issue you can't affect? Live in a cave wearing clothes made out of your own hair and eating ethically sourced moss and see how much difference it makes.

Semantics and pedantry are pretty much the same thing JAT

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It also said that volcanos contribute to the situation. Ergo it is not 100 % man made. I shall take your heartfelt apology as implied.

Birds farting contribute too. So do a myriad of other things. They are natural. They can be ignored.

The only thing though that we need to be concerned about is the climate change we are responsible for.

100% of that which concerns us is man made. Trying to introduce a different subject is both a diversion and a distraction. Natural climate change exists. No one contests that. It’s not the subject.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Birds farting contribute too. So do a myriad of other things. They are natural. They can be ignored.

The only thing though that we need to be concerned about is the climate change we are responsible for.

100% of that which concerns us is man made. Trying to introduce a different subject is both a diversion and a distraction. Natural climate change exists. No one contests that. It’s not the subject.

Do they? I'll have a word with mine then.
Your determination to dictate the parameters of any thread notwithstanding at least there is recognition of other contributory factors.

 

[Badger11]

Whether climate change is real whether it is man made or naturally occurring it all boils down to the same issue.

The UK barely makes a dent globally and until the major polluters are prepared to do something why should we harm our economy and lifestyle just so that a few liberals can feel good about themselves.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Therefore we have to decrease atmospheric CO2, and we are hardly going to manage that at the enormous rate that we've been pumping it out, then there will be lag. So expect those sea level rises, they are calculated, and good luck with all those nuclear sites globally because one thing about nukes is that it requires a lot of water for cooling, so most are built on the coast.

Secondly, the terraforming of Mars as a planet to escape to is just utter fantasy, this isn't Battlestar Galactica.

You don't need communism but you do need to guide and incentivise, and you need to criminalise political bribery (the oil boys have just enough senators on their payrolls to get whatever they need for example). I have no problem with subsidy, it's used everywhere, and Trump wouldn't even be where he is without that if you look at his father's business.

I don't know about 'Mars' as a planet to escape to, that isn't how I look at it anyway.....Personally I don't view that as very practical odds wise, however attempts at colonization are just sensible as a hedge on species survival independent of end game 'climate change'....which wouldn't wipe us out anyway regardless of drastic changes to life on earth....but there are other risks that could.

My opinion on technological advancement isn't expressly related to immediate matters....though obviously that's important and why funding is usually allocated....but I view them as efficiency improvements that humans should be advancing anyway.....EV, solar, nuclear and so on.

On nuclear, I should imagine that we will be switching to fusion within 50 years...probably even sooner given progress, so hopefully that particular concern for that energy source won't be a reality.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Do they? I'll have a word with mine then.
Your determination to dictate the parameters of any thread notwithstanding at least there is recognition of other contributory factors.

I am not dictating anything! I am stating the blindingly obvious.

Is it really necessary to have to add “man made” as the prefix to “climate change” just to satisfy the whims of a determined pedant?

Man made climate change is the discussion. Not just here but in discussions everywhere these days. It’s what is generally understood.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I am not dictating anything! I am stating the blindingly obvious.

Is it really necessary to have to add “man made” as the prefix to “climate change” just to satisfy the whims of a determined pedant?

Man made climate change is the discussion. Not just here but in discussions everywhere these days. It’s what is generally understood.

As usual dismissing any questioning of these word of God pronouncements as pedantry.
Since you have such in depth knowledge what do you want us to do? Not governments. Us?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Whether climate change is real whether it is man made or naturally occurring it all boils down to the same issue.

The UK barely makes a dent globally and until the major polluters are prepared to do something why should we harm our economy and lifestyle just so that a few liberals can feel good about themselves.

The “everyone is doing it so why can’t we” argument can be applied to many areas of life. Most of which lead to vicious circles of decline.

Why not adopt a “ it can be done so why not do it” attitude instead? That leads to virtuous circles of survival and growth.

Britain used to lead, not follow. This is an opportunity to resume our place in the world. We still enjoy a reputation for honesty and fair dealing. Of doing the right thing when faced with adversity. Other countries will wake up. They will be forced to when things start to overwhelm them. The result may well be disastrous. Only time will tell. It may not though. We may discover rapid solutions which we can share and profit from. If we do nothing disaster seems a certainty.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

As usual dismissing any questioning of these word of God pronouncements as pedantry.
Since you have such in depth knowledge what do you want us to do? Not governments. Us?

There’s no pronouncements from anyone. There’s a consensus among the specialist scientific community that I trust, alongside just about every government not adopting selfishness as their primary focus.

I don’t want anyone to do anything as individuals. I want us all to be led by government and industry. To be educated, encouraged and regulated in ways which enable change to happen. Once educated I want us all to support and accept those changes. Change cannot happen overnight and life must go on, but change must happen. We owe it to our children, their children and every subsequent generation.

 

[Spindle]

Whether climate change is real whether it is man made or naturally occurring it all boils down to the same issue.

The UK barely makes a dent globally and until the major polluters are prepared to do something why should we harm our economy and lifestyle just so that a few liberals can feel good about themselves.

Your vote doesn't put a dent into the ballot box, so why bother 🙄

 

[Spindle]

On nuclear, I should imagine that we will be switching to fusion within 50 years...probably even sooner given progress, so hopefully that particular concern for that energy source won't be a reality.

I live near to Berkeley and Oldbury. Neither have been generating for many years, but neither will be moved nor finished on their decommissioning for at least another 50 years. Nuclear is a timebomb.

 

[eaglesdare]

I do my bit.
But I still think all this climate change rhetoric we get is fear mongering malarkey. And a reason to raise taxes.

All these politicians / celebrities preaching yet they must have over 1000 times the carbon footprint I leave 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I do my bit.
But I still think all this climate change rhetoric we get is fear mongering malarkey. And a reason to raise taxes.

All these politicians / celebrities preaching yet they must have over 1000 times the carbon footprint I leave 🤷🏻‍♂️

Fear is a powerful motivation, among other powerful motivations. Using it to get things done by a reluctant and poorly informed population isn't anything new. It's been used by governments many times when it is necessary. Getting things done being their function. If taxes need to be raised as a result then taxes need to be raised.

We are now committed to increasing our defence spending by 2.5% earlier than planned and, shamefully, will further reduce overseas aid in part compensation. Taxes will though need to increase. It's inevitable.

Who will you blame for that? Starmer, Putin or Trump? Blaming the need for increased taxes on climate change is naive. Change will cost money in the short term. Not changing will cost much more in the long term. Just imagine being dependent on Russian, Saudi or American oil and gas in the future. Those days must be put behind us. We can rely no longer on a rules-based international trading system. It's been shafted by Trump.

It might appear off thread but dealing with these issues is now interrelated.

 

[eaglesdare]

Can you not go one day or even one post without mentioning President Trump? It's boring now.

Even us on the "Right" are not this obsessed with him.

Good grief. Is there TDS support group you can join?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Can you not go one day or even one post without mentioning President Trump? It's boring now.

Even us on the "Right" are not this obsessed with him.

Good grief. Is there TDS support group you can join?

When the world is in the process of being turned upside down by him it's next to impossible not to mention him. He is impacting so many things.

It's not restricted to me. Watch the news reports. Many things get connected.

You getting bored and accepting the lies and disastrous policies is exactly what he wants. It's already happening to Congress who are giving him a free pass to do things that are actually their responsibility. Just wait until he announces amendments to the Constitution that give him more direct power and watch them agree.

Voices that point this out, continuously, might be tedious to some, but are necessary.

The only ones deluded by Trump are those who think he is on their side and doing a good job.

 

[Stirlingsays]

When the world is in the process of being turned upside down by him it's next to impossible not to mention him. He is impacting so many things.

It's not restricted to me. Watch the news reports. Many things get connected.

You getting bored and accepting the lies and disastrous policies is exactly what he wants. It's already happening to Congress who are giving him a free pass to do things that are actually their responsibility. Just wait until he announces amendments to the Constitution that give him more direct power and watch them agree.

Voices that point this out, continuously, might be tedious to some, but are necessary.

The only ones deluded by Trump are those who think he is on their side and doing a good job.

The irony being that It's down to the obsession of people like yourself that's he's even back in power.