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The 1861 nonsense

All those wetting the bed on this ought to go read up on other club dates, it'll make you realise just how dodgy all of these foundation dates are. But that's how is was, and is. Also just bear in mind that the game itself took decades to become something recognisable, in those early days they still hadn't split from rugby, the sport itself hadn't even established the codes they played under. Does that make Notts County and Forest rugby clubs then? No, it doesn't
 
Spindle said:
All those wetting the bed on this ought to go read up on other club dates, it'll make you realise just how dodgy all of these foundation dates are. But that's how is was, and is. Also just bear in mind that the game itself took decades to become something recognisable, in those early days they still hadn't split from rugby, the sport itself hadn't even established the codes they played under. Does that make Notts County and Forest rugby clubs then? No, it doesn't
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Nobody is wetting the bed, some people are just gullible to follow whatever Parish says. Whataboutery is not an argument.

Why can't you accept there are two Crystal Palace FC's as the FA has confirmed? 😀
 
There have been 4. You should get 2010 on your tattoo.

Gullible is nothing to do with it, history is discovery, and I've seen enough to cast away any doubts of the connection.

Have you even looked? I bet you haven't, bet when it was announced you dismissed it without consideration.


Strip that cup from AFC Wimbledon. Different club, different owners, different players, different ground.
 
Spindle said:
There have been 4. You should get 2010 on your tattoo.

Gullible is nothing to do with it, history is discovery, and I've seen enough to cast away any doubts of the connection.

Have you even looked? I bet you haven't, bet when it was announced you dismissed it without consideration.


Strip that cup from AFC Wimbledon. Different club, different owners, different players, different ground.
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Yes I looked. In fact I wrote a book about it. I was hoping that the two clubs were the same and tried to find proof of this. All I, and the National Football Museum among others, found was the opposite.

If "history is discovery" I'm interested to see what have discovered?
 
The Croydon Advertisor has records going back to 1869. If there were any matches played they'd be a record in the archive which you can search online. Good luck searching.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Yes I looked. In fact I wrote a book about it. I was hoping that the two clubs were the same and tried to find proof of this. All I, and the National Football Museum among others, found was the opposite.

If "history is discovery" I'm interested to see what have discovered?
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Ah. And now we find out the whole agenda.

Your book is now out of date, and it's the same reason all of these other authors had kicked off, because they also have had their books put out of date.

It's no different to the church complaining at evolutionary science.
 
Spindle said:
Ah. And now we find out the whole agenda.

Your book is now out of date, and it's the same reason all of these other authors had kicked off, because they also have had their books put out of date.

It's no different to the church complaining at evolutionary science.
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It's not out of date as it came out after Manning's and can be updated at any time if there was new information as it's print on demand. What other authors?

You still have not given any contemporary evidence to support your assertion.
 
Penge Eagle said:
It's not out of date as it came out after Manning's and can be updated at any time if there was new information as it's print on demand. What other authors?

You still have not given any contemporary evidence to support your assertion.
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Well you can buy books on crop circles, flat earth and how the moon landings were faked but it doesn't make any of it true.

It stuns me that you can't link 2 clubs which have the same name and ownership, backed by printed articles at the time, and even have some of the same people involved.

Can you tell us the rules around all of this, other than "your opinion"? How do they compare to the stories of other clubs? And of course I say 'stories' because that's what history is, a story of connected events. It's not up to me to have to explain things to you, I've seen enough, and I'm delighted with the connection.
 
Spindle said:
Well you can buy books on crop circles, flat earth and how the moon landings were faked but it doesn't make any of it true.

It stuns me that you can't link 2 clubs which have the same name and ownership, backed by printed articles at the time, and even have some of the same people involved.

Can you tell us the rules around all of this, other than "your opinion"? How do they compare to the stories of other clubs? And of course I say 'stories' because that's what history is, a story of connected events. It's not up to me to have to explain things to you, I've seen enough, and I'm delighted with the connection.
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I keep asking, but you are unable to show me the "printed articles at the time"... because they don't exist.

The onus is on you as a person making a claim to provide the evidence.

All of the rubbish put out by Palace and conspiracy theorist Peter Manning are debunked with primary sources: The big Crystal Palace 1861 lie

If you want to believe Parish's fairy tale instead of facts, then I'm happy for you. 🙂
 
there almost certainly WAS a Crystal Palace fc in 1861.......but it probably resembled a works-team or a pub-side.

now before you scoff, i can recall many 'professional' clubs that have been guilty of the same crime.
 
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1905 not only feels authentic it feels more connected to my own experience. It was in my Dad’s lifetime and also means I have been a supporter for 60% of their existence, following them from the 3rd Div South all the way to being established members of the Premier League and Cup winners.

Of all the teams I watched them play against in that first season only Southampton and Brighton have claims to have achieved more since, and Brighton haven’t won the cup!
 
PalazioVecchio said:
there almost certainly WAS a Crystal Palace fc in 1861.......but it probably resembled a works-team or a pub-side.

now before you scoff, i can recall many 'professional' clubs that have been guilty of the same crime.
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I understand the accepted account (myth?) is it was a works team for relocating the Crystal Palace.

Not sure the dates fit.

However the BBC appears to have bought in with 1861 and refers to the first major prize in our proud "164 year" history
 
PalazioVecchio said:
there almost certainly WAS a Crystal Palace fc in 1861.......but it probably resembled a works-team or a pub-side.

now before you scoff, i can recall many 'professional' clubs that have been guilty of the same crime.
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I don't really care about other clubs dubious claims, this is about us.

As fare as I can tell there is a 25 year break between the 2 teams playing. I don't really care that there might be some documents about a holding company it's about the football.
 
PalazioVecchio said:
there almost certainly WAS a Crystal Palace fc in 1861.......but it probably resembled a works-team or a pub-side.

now before you scoff, i can recall many 'professional' clubs that have been guilty of the same crime.
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The independent amateur club was made up of wealthy professionals who lived in Penge and Sydenham and had the leisure time to play football.
 
silvertop said:
I understand the accepted account (myth?) is it was a works team for relocating the Crystal Palace.

Not sure the dates fit.

However the BBC appears to have bought in with 1861 and refers to the first major prize in our proud "164 year" history
Click to expand...
The dates don't fit particularly well - I understand this refers to the Irish labourers that were brought in to rebuild the Crystal Palace on Sydenham Hill, and who were (pretty much) all housed in what was called 'New Town' in Upper Norwood, but the rebuild took place between 1852 -54, so if they had formed a team it would have most likely been before 1861.

After the building works finished most of them either moved on to work elsewhere or retuned home, and New Town homes either bought up for living in, or more usually rented out...... but that's a whole history in itself!
 
Badger11 said:
I don't really care about other clubs dubious claims, this is about us.

As fare as I can tell there is a 25 year break between the 2 teams playing. I don't really care that there might be some documents about a holding company it's about the football.
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Agree and to clarify it's 30 years, plus no documents about a holding company exist. Football was such a new sport back then, played by amateurs for fun and companies owning clubs wasn't a thing.
 
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