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The 1861 nonsense

Spindle said:
Because he seems to think I need to prove something to him, and it's annoying.

He's embarrassing the club by making a massive fuss and splitting off from what is official and what many of us believe to be true, it's clear he has a vested interest in it being"1905". He'd do better just updating his book, it would sell more copies. There are plenty of lies out there, why not go and disprove conspiracy theories, it'll matter more.
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Mate, if you believe everything your football club says without question, you’re not a fan – you're a cult member in a replica shirt. Palace could announce they’re relocating the stadium to the moon for 'atmosphere' and you’d be on here defending it, typing on your keyboard with your full kit on. Supporting a team doesn’t mean turning off your brain and worshipping the matchday programme like it’s the Ten Commandments. Football thrives on debate, scrutiny, and holding power to account. Your lack of counter-argument and subsequent posts speaks volumes.
 
I very much enjoy reading books about CPFC. And the history of the '1861' club is a really interesting read - they did so many landmark things, most importantly play a major role in the setting up the FA and playing a part in creating the laws of the game, as well as the world's oldest competition, the FA Cup.

Eventually they stopped playing football, some of the CP football players did play for Crystal Palace cricket club for many years afterwards to be fair.

There was then a massive generation long gap before eventually Edmund Goodman and Co set up the club we support today.

You can see actual photos of the first entries in the first minute book of the current club, in the 'Origin of Crystal Palace' book series.

Putting 1861 on our current club crest comes across to me as an embarrassing history grab, probably motivated by sales of pastel blue replica shirts the other year. The colours were never described anywhere as being such a shade, but I guess a modern Palace replica shirt in Brighton colours wouldn't sell so well!

The club know that 90%+ of fans aren't going to read heavy books about Victorian footballers and will just follow the official club line.

Some even know it's a tenuous link but are happy to support it regardless, as it annoys the likes of Fulham and Notts County fans. The flipside of that is that there are two clubs there who would have had our backs as fellow underdogs, who now just think of us as disingenuous.

For what it's worth, on the drive home from the Final, Talksport at least were using our 1905 date to emphasise the length of our history.

And various articles around the final listed 1976 as our first semi final, not 1872. So plenty of media and stattos outside of Palace aren't all duped.

Give it long enough and 1861 will stick I guess. In a generation or two, people will stop questioning it. Particularly as younger generations are less inclined to read heavy history books.
 
dorking said:
Give it long enough and 1861 will stick I guess. In a generation or two, people will stop questioning it. Particularly as younger generations are less inclined to read heavy history books.
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our claim, to the heritage of the 1861 Crystal Palace team, is more substantial than Henry vii's claim to the English throne was. Or even the claim of Henry V to the French throne.
Such disputes are fought for, defended, and claimed against all the odds. Nobody just hands you the throne for free. The main question being "well who else might get the throne ?".......or in this case, what other football club can claim to carry the baton for the 1861 CP team ? Millwall ? Anerley FC ? the MK Dons ? i doubt it.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Mate, if you believe everything your football club says without question, you’re not a fan – you're a cult member in a replica shirt. Palace could announce they’re relocating the stadium to the moon for 'atmosphere' and you’d be on here defending it, typing on your keyboard with your full kit on. Supporting a team doesn’t mean turning off your brain and worshipping the matchday programme like it’s the Ten Commandments. Football thrives on debate, scrutiny, and holding power to account. Your lack of counter-argument and subsequent posts speaks volumes.
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What have they lied about? They haven't. We know there was a footballing gap, but we also know there's a direct link, hence 1861 on the crest. That's NOT a lie.

Since when did you become the rule maker on club foundations? You aren't whatsoever, you just have an opinion and it is overstated.
 
Spindle said:
What have they lied about? They haven't. We know there was a footballing gap, but we also know there's a direct link, hence 1861 on the crest. That's NOT a lie.

Since when did you become the rule maker on club foundations? You aren't whatsoever, you just have an opinion and it is overstated.
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They have lied about the so-called link! They have provided no evidence to their assertion, simply made up a cock and bull story. It's all been debunked here The big Crystal Palace 1861 lie and I have laid out more evidence on this thread about the games in the 1890s. Did you bother reading it?

The FA would approve the connection if it was true. Why would they not? [Insert conspiracy theory here]. Since when has non-historian Peter Manning been a rule maker? It's not about opinions, it's about historical facts. Funnily enough, nobody can dispute any of the counter facts laid out.
 
Penge Eagle said:
They have lied about the so-called link! They have provided no evidence to their assertion, simply made up a cock and bull story. It's all been debunked here The big Crystal Palace 1861 lie and I have laid out more evidence on this thread about the games in the 1890s. Did you bother reading it?

The FA would approve the connection if it was true. Why would they not? [Insert conspiracy theory here]. Since when has non-historian Peter Manning been a rule maker? It's not about opinions, it's about historical facts. Funnily enough, nobody can dispute any of the counter facts laid out.
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just a few simple questions.....

- was there football happening around the Crystal Palace site prior to 1905 ? even going way back to 1861? and a team called Crystal Palace who played the odd away-gig ?
- and very little formal football happening in most of the rest of the country.

The paperwork-links between the current Pope and St Peter are not well documented and only tenuous. Just saying.....
 
PalazioVecchio said:
just a few simple questions.....

- was there football happening around the Crystal Palace site prior to 1905 ? even going way back to 1861? and a team called Crystal Palace who played the odd away-gig ?
- and very little formal football happening in most of the rest of the country.

The paperwork-links between the current Pope and St Peter are not well documented and only tenuous. Just saying.....
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For the 1864/65 and 1865/66 seasons, the first CPFC moved from Crystal Palace Park and played on a field behind the Crooked Billet, Penge. In 1866/67 they were homeless. A match report from December 1867 states that the club "last year appeared likely to become extinct, in consequence of the loss of their ground at Penge and the seeming impossibility of obtaining another to suit them." On a brief return to the Park, they played their final game (v Reigate Priory) on January 9, 1875. There are no recorded results for other fixtures in any leagues or cups – even "away gigs".

The Palace players continued playing football with other local clubs. Club captain Charles Eastlake Smith represented the Wanderers and the Anerley-based team the Hawks. A team calling itself Crystal Palace Rovers (Rovers, like Wanderers has connotations of travelling due to no home ground) tried to revive the old team in 1883 but there is only one documented game. In a different area of the CP Park in later years, other teams played football, such as Middlesex v Sussex in March 1896 and Nottingham Forest v Dundee in April 1896. The paperwork links are not tenuous... there is no paperwork.
 
so we get Mateta to jog up and down , past the Crooked Billet pub, then plant our flag and bosh....its all ours now.

Nobody wanted us winning the FA cup, and nobody wants us to take ownership of an ancient and SE19 tradition. f...ck them all. Fortune favours the brave.

Most of the naysayers are probably Brighton trolls.
 
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PalazioVecchio said:
the link between The Gunners and the Woolwich arsenal is a bit tenuous too ?

i like 1861 cos i like unofficial older stuff. Christopher columbus was not the first european to discover the Americas.............that was the Vikings ( and maybe even Irish monks before them ).

unofficial older stuff can often be intriguing even when many would prefer to have it forgotten......the first marriage of Catherine of Aragon, the outbreak of WWII in a Japanese invasion of China....1937, the football paperwork of Carlos Tevez, the dinosaur models at Palace Park, the word Manhattan meaning a good place for Indians to source arrow-wood, Ulster-Scots desire that the Irish in Ulster should 'go back to where they came from' ..... all superseded by a later narrative.

There really was a football club called Crystal Palace in 1861. They inhaled the same SE19 air. Good enough for me. There is a gap between the death of Christ and the establishment of the official christian church (s)..........just saying.
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Good point Mark!
 
Up here in Scotland, Rangers Football Club plc went bust in 2012 and were wound up as a company and a club. A new company Sevco bought the assets and applied to enter the football league at the bottom division, subsequently calling themselves RFC 2012 and RangersFootball Club Ltd. For a number of years they were regarded officially as a new club but still claimed the history of the old one. Now the official bodies, TV, and pundits see the 2 companies as one entity with all the trophies they have won, although many Celtic fans still refer to them as Sevco and Oldco.
 
PalazioVecchio said:
so we get Mateta to jog up and down , past the Crooked Billet pub, then plant our flag and bosh....its all ours now.

Nobody wanted us winning the FA cup, and nobody wants us to take ownership of an ancient and SE19 tradition. f...ck them all. Fortune favours the brave.

Most of the naysayers are probably Brighton trolls.
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If there was evidence then maybe, but there's none in 25 years maybe more.
 
Penge Eagle said:
For the 1864/65 and 1865/66 seasons, the first CPFC moved from Crystal Palace Park and played on a field behind the Crooked Billet, Penge. In 1866/67 they were homeless. A match report from December 1867 states that the club "last year appeared likely to become extinct, in consequence of the loss of their ground at Penge and the seeming impossibility of obtaining another to suit them." On a brief return to the Park, they played their final game (v Reigate Priory) on January 9, 1875. There are no recorded results for other fixtures in any leagues or cups – even "away gigs".

The Palace players continued playing football with other local clubs. Club captain Charles Eastlake Smith represented the Wanderers and the Anerley-based team the Hawks. A team calling itself Crystal Palace Rovers (Rovers, like Wanderers has connotations of travelling due to no home ground) tried to revive the old team in 1883 but there is only one documented game. In a different area of the CP Park in later years, other teams played football, such as Middlesex v Sussex in March 1896 and Nottingham Forest v Dundee in April 1896. The paperwork links are not tenuous... there is no paperwork.
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Your efforts to undermine our club are embarrassing.

Back in the day did you ever sing "Crystal palace FC, Are by FAR the greatest team, the World has ever seen". ?? Only, that's not true
 
Spindle said:
Your efforts to undermine our club are embarrassing.

Back in the day did you ever sing "Crystal palace FC, Are by FAR the greatest team, the World has ever seen". ?? Only, that's not true
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What’s embarrassing is watching a grown adult plug their ears and scream ‘LALALA’ because cold, hard facts make them feel insecure about the club. A historical flat-earther in a Palace shirt. 🤣
 
It's a marketing ploy to give the club some kind of gravitas others don't have.

The facts are well established, 1860 whatever is false claim.

It's same as when a product is described as the favourite or most loved etc.

Maybe it appeals to US investors who think they are getting a real piece of history
 
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