Sage is sage

I think Sage is worth persevering with, especially after so many personnel changes. His potential ceiling is far higher than the alternative, probably Dyche.

Looking at our results, we were never going to beat Everton or City. We did beat Fulham and Boro. And the Ipswich game we should have won with 10 men and would have won if Disasi wasn't a tit.

That result was the difference between our league position looking precarious and healthy.

He needs to get a grip on the defence but, attacking wise, not many teams have outscored us.
 
MrRobbo said:
What else would it be?!

We are transitioning from a low block to a high press team. It feels a bit of a mess, but we need to give it time. He's show that he can make us more attacking (without out our 2 biggest goal threats).

Now he just needs to play with the balance. Since Fulham we've made steps to look less open every game. So it feels like the balance is comming.
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Poor quality signings? Khakaili has shown flashes of being decent, but out of all the players we’ve signed, no one else has stood out yet
 
OneStevePerrin said:
Agreed, sadly we have a weaker 11 than previous recent seasons even if we have a bigger squad :-( Not sure a high press which is Sage’s way works in the Prem for clubs outside of the top 6 unless you have a team of near on world class players. If it’s still not working end of October he will be out. But even if that is the case I’m not confident we have a strong enough 11 to compete without it being a relegation fight to stay up?
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I think the biggest worry is that you just can’t keep selling your best players, it catches up with you in the end, ala wolves and Southampton. Although I totally get why we have to sell, we’re a small club in a tinpot ground punching above our weight, but it doesn’t alter the fact that, as you say, our best eleven is seriously weaker than it was last summer
 
Willo said:

Pierre Sage Tactics At RC Lens 2025/2026: Why Les Sang Et Or Are Top Of Ligue 1 – Tactical Analysis | TFA

Lens top Ligue 1 as we close in on the halfway point, ahead of PSG by one point at the top of the table. The historic French club has had a meteoric rise ov…
totalfootballanalysis.com totalfootballanalysis.com
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Very informative in terms of what Sage is trying to achieve and the pitfalls. He has shown flexibility in the past in terms of both formation and tactics. It’s going to be a rollercoaster and top half is a dream this season but if he’s given time I believe we will have an exciting side. We are a side in transition so time to be patient.
 
I'm very happy to back Sage, if only because I dislike the idea that you change the manager after a few bad results. That's often a fundamental misunderstanding of football, and the modest importance of the man in the dugout compared to wider conditions at a club.

That said, whilst I believe that even a very good manager can only slightly improve the natural level of the team, I also believe that a bad one can fatally undermine a team very quickly. A manager might be bad for lots of reasons, but often they are simply the wrong man for the circumstances. As I've said earlier, a pressing game is risky. The average standard in England is far higher than in France, there are far more players in even average teams who can pick you off. What made sense for Lens may well be a mistake for Palace.

That's what I'm worried about, the fundamentals of the method. It's not the results.

I recently saw an older clip of Parish on the High Performance podcast (which is a pod I personally find hard to enjoy, but still). Steve was talking about letting Vieira go. He basically accepted that there was a reasonable chance results would have come good if he'd left things as they were, but that as a responsible chairman he's really only got that one big red button to push if things aren't going well. He also said it wasn't just results, but performances, and the nature of the approach that worried him. He's said similar things about Pardew I believe.

Parish also said that having (at the time) spent so much on the academy he just couldn't risk relegation. That weighed against Vieira. Well, the main stand is a more expensive project so Pierre has even less grace.

Mostly though, we know that Parish responds to worry by going for safe hands, for a conservative manager who makes us hard to beat. In that context, it's difficult to imagine he's not worried by what he sees of Sage's approach.

None of which gets me past the responsibility Parish and Hobbs (I presume) have for appointing Sage, knowing that his teams press high. Didn't they discuss this stuff? What were they expecting to see now?

Mind you, we could have said all that about de Boer. Didn't stop Parish pressing the big red button.
 
Canterbury Palace said:
I think Sage is worth persevering with, especially after so many personnel changes. His potential ceiling is far higher than the alternative, probably Dyche.

Looking at our results, we were never going to beat Everton or City. We did beat Fulham and Boro. And the Ipswich game we should have won with 10 men and would have won if Disasi wasn't a tit.

That result was the difference between our league position looking precarious and healthy.

He needs to get a grip on the defence but, attacking wise, not many teams have outscored us.
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That's where I'm at. Disasi doesn't get sent off and we win that game, we're joint 7th and everything feels much more positive.
 
Canterbury Palace said:
I think Sage is worth persevering with, especially after so many personnel changes. His potential ceiling is far higher than the alternative, probably Dyche.

Looking at our results, we were never going to beat Everton or City. We did beat Fulham and Boro. And the Ipswich game we should have won with 10 men and would have won if Disasi wasn't a tit.

That result was the difference between our league position looking precarious and healthy.

He needs to get a grip on the defence but, attacking wise, not many teams have outscored us.
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Apart from three of the four teams we have played in their games against us which I would suggest is the key thing when trying to win football matches
 
Sage has already had to deal with a mountain of challenges. Going forward, we've carried more threat than in a lot of games under Glasner last season, so it's now whether he can organise the defence or find a better way of protecting it. It was always likely to be a period of adjustment given the amount of change, and it's probably no surprise that the foreign managers that have taken over at us, Fulham, Bournemouth have all made slow starts.

I don't know if Sage will work out for us, but I hate the modern world of football where managers and players get five minutes to prove themselves before some know-it-all pipes up saying they're useless. It makes it really depressing. It's like some people are more enthusiastic about being able to say 'I told you so' than they are about supporting the team.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
I'm very happy to back Sage, if only because I dislike the idea that you change the manager after a few bad results. That's often a fundamental misunderstanding of football, and the modest importance of the man in the dugout compared to wider conditions at a club.

That said, whilst I believe that even a very good manager can only slightly improve the natural level of the team, I also believe that a bad one can fatally undermine a team very quickly. A manager might be bad for lots of reasons, but often they are simply the wrong man for the circumstances. As I've said earlier, a pressing game is risky. The average standard in England is far higher than in France, there are far more players in even average teams who can pick you off. What made sense for Lens may well be a mistake for Palace.

That's what I'm worried about, the fundamentals of the method. It's not the results.

I recently saw an older clip of Parish on the High Performance podcast (which is a pod I personally find hard to enjoy, but still). Steve was talking about letting Vieira go. He basically accepted that there was a reasonable chance results would have come good if he'd left things as they were, but that as a responsible chairman he's really only got that one big red button to push if things aren't going well. He also said it wasn't just results, but performances, and the nature of the approach that worried him. He's said similar things about Pardew I believe.

Parish also said that having (at the time) spent so much on the academy he just couldn't risk relegation. That weighed against Vieira. Well, the main stand is a more expensive project so Pierre has even less grace.

Mostly though, we know that Parish responds to worry by going for safe hands, for a conservative manager who makes us hard to beat. In that context, it's difficult to imagine he's not worried by what he sees of Sage's approach.

None of which gets me past the responsibility Parish and Hobbs (I presume) have for appointing Sage, knowing that his teams press high. Didn't they discuss this stuff? What were they expecting to see now?

Mind you, we could have said all that about de Boer. Didn't stop Parish pressing the big red button.
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Yes, this. What were they expecting? Sage is Sage, so I presume this is what Parish & Co wanted to see. Folks, don't blame Sage, he's been put in an unenviable position with a set of lesser than great new players and hardly any time to knock them into shape. Blame Parish & Co for their poor succession planning instead. And shold Sage leave the new guy will have it just the same.
 
MarkA333 said:
On reflection, I think that our poor start is down to Sage’s tactics. It’s clear that he wants to play a very high, aggressive press. That’s all very well and can work with the right personnel but too often our two wing backs have been ‘sent on a safari’ upfield….no doubt following orders from Sage. This has led to multiple dangerous counter attacks against our exposed centre backs. Something needs to change, whether it’s Sage or tactics or both.
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At Lyon he seemed to change the system to suit the players ability , but they already had a set squad , so not strangers to each other , at the moment think he still trying to get that , we signed another team which means getting tough and dropping players if not following orders , he really needs a leader on the pitch whos bark is as bad , as his bite
 
Let’s hope for two solid performances before the break and not too many players away in the international break which seems likely for poor form, injury and sulking reasons. Not having Sarr and Mateta available has also seriously restricted the team.
 
Axel Disasi will miss three matches for his straight red card against Ipswich Town. [1]
The Crystal Palace defender was sent off in the 34th minute for a high, reckless challenge with his studs on Ipswich's Jack Clarke. Because his dismissal was for serious foul play, it carries an automatic three-match domestic suspension. [1, 2]
 
MarkA333 said:
Axel Disasi will miss three matches for his straight red card against Ipswich Town. [1]
The Crystal Palace defender was sent off in the 34th minute for a high, reckless challenge with his studs on Ipswich's Jack Clarke. Because his dismissal was for serious foul play, it carries an automatic three-match domestic suspension. [1, 2]
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Massively serious. GBH.
 
MrRobbo said:
That's where I'm at. Disasi doesn't get sent off and we win that game, we're joint 7th and everything feels much more positive.
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More if's.

It almost feels like I'm picking on you, but I'm genuinely not.

The fact is that Disasi did get sent off so speculation as to what may have happened is pointless and can't be proved either way.

It's similar to the claims that we would have beaten Everton if Mateta had taken his two chances.
He missed, we lost, and the game can't be replayed or the points won.

One could equally say if Fulham had taken their two easy chances after we went 3-2 ahead then they would have equalised and we would only have one point this season.

For me positivity has to be be steeped in a sense of reality, not that just we are continually the recipients of bad luck and poor decisions and but for this everything would be just rosy.
 
mtp1958 said:
At Lyon he seemed to change the system to suit the players ability , but they already had a set squad , so not strangers to each other , at the moment think he still trying to get that , we signed another team which means getting tough and dropping players if not following orders , he really needs a leader on the pitch whos bark is as bad , as his bite
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We need a Roy Keane, Viera type in midfield.
 
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