Sage in or out

[PatrickA]

The other major factor to consider is which manager is available immediately and whether such manager is vaguely competent.
I'm not really a fan of Howe, but in any event I think his self regard is such that he'd be looking at a bigger club than us

I liked Frank for much of his time at Brentford until he lost his way whereupon the stories emerged that his success was down to the way Brentford was run as opposed to Frank's managerial skills.

I think we've moved on from the likes of Dyche and I'm not sure he'd be a good fit for the squad anyway.

Any other suggestions for an experienced candidate ( not Roy)?

 

[Save Dwindlehurst]

At least for Sage we’re not adrift. Bit lucky to be on seven points. Buys him a bit of time.

 

[samprior]

At least for Sage we’re not adrift. Bit lucky to be on seven points. Buys him a bit of time.

Indeed. Or buys the new guy a bit of time.

 

[samprior]

The other major factor to consider is which manager is available immediately and whether such manager is vaguely competent.
I'm not really a fan of Howe, but in any event I think his self regard is such that he'd be looking at a bigger club than us

I liked Frank for much of his time at Brentford until he lost his way whereupon the stories emerged that his success was down to the way Brentford was run as opposed to Frank's managerial skills.

I think we've moved on from the likes of Dyche and I'm not sure he'd be a good fit for the squad anyway.

Any other suggestions for an experienced candidate ( not Roy)?

Sage's replacement at Lens Dino Topmöller is available after falling out with the board. He was apparently also on our wishlist over the summer. And Sage could go back to Lens. Stranger things have happened.

 

[leejaneagles]

I wanted Glasner out for the rigidity of the formation & I'm actually glad he left of his own accord and can be remembered as our greatest ever Manager (which he is because of the 3 trophies) but we went on some horrendous runs and the reason was because Prem Teams can slice through a midfield 2.

Lacroix and Guehi are supremely talented CBs so they pulled us through but in my mind, we’d of finished way higher up the table and still won our trophies with those 2 at centre back. Eze, Olisse, Sarr and Mateta (in form) were too good to not score, so we made it work.

I still think it was wrong. You can’t convince me otherwise. It works when it works (FA Cup final) which is the highest of highs but too rigid when it doesn’t work (Macclesfield).

This is all a long winded way of saying, I don’t mind playing it when it suits but only Glasner had credit enough in the bank to play a back 5 against bloody Macclesfield!

Sage has some of the worst defenders at his disposal but has Will Hughes, Lerma and to a lesser extent, Doucoure in the bench. If you pick 2 out of Richard’s, Canvot, Disasi and Honor (an admitidly duff set to choose from) but sit Lerma between Wharton and Timber, or Timber between Kamada and Wharton, then have Sarr, Pinot and Strand upfront, we do better.

That team and formation doesn’t win today our 2 CBs probably still score own goals), but we lose 2-0 instead of 5-0 against BRIGHTON

 

[OneStevePerrin]

Or even just drop the wing backs 15 yards deeper. Let the back three play between the width of the penalty box, drop Kamada back to make a midfield three and get the whole team to stop pushing so far up. I am at a loss as to why he isn’t changing it because it so clearly isn’t working.

Leads me to think he can’t communicate his instructions clearly to his players or he has lost them. Either way it’s difficult to see how he can avoid the sack. This is even more chaotic than the Pardew days.

That is exactly what should be happening. I thought we all said after the Leeds draw that was why we got the result. And yet we went into the next two matches pushing the wingbacks up again with two in midfield and let in 8 goals. Utterly amazing that we have seen what’s required and Sage can’t? The unsettled back 3 just can’t handle it and today we switched them around again putting Canvot on the wrong side of the 3. Whatever 3 we use, Richard’s has to play on the right. At least have 2 of the 3 playing in there preferred position. Doesn’t help the centre of the 3 I know but 2 out of 3 must be best until we get players either injured or suspended back? It’s a mess and Sage isn’t helping - Grrr!

 

[samprior]

That is exactly what should be happening. I thought we all said after the Leeds draw that was why we got the result. And yet we went into the next two matches pushing the wingbacks up again with two in midfield and let in 8 goals. Utterly amazing that we have seen what’s required and Sage can’t? The unsettled back 3 just can’t handle it and today we switched them around again putting Canvot on the wrong side of the 3. Whatever 3 we use, Richard’s has to play on the right. At least have 2 of the 3 playing in there preferred position. Doesn’t help the centre of the 3 I know but 2 out of 3 must be best until we get players either injured or suspended back? It’s a mess and Sage isn’t helping - Grrr!

The maddening thing is the wingbacks play so high up leaving us ridiculously exposed...yet still rarely apply any pressure on the opposition when they're in possession. We seem to be sprinting at the opposition from about 10 meters whilst they take their first touch. This then leaves huge pockets of space to pass into and then the same thing happens again until the opposition are running at our back 3 who are usually sh*tting themselves by that point.

 

[sprites]

Correct. The system relies on a near-perfect press. Winning the ball higher up the field means less pressure on the back three...but anything less than full commitment and it unravels, as we've been seeing.

 

[JHB]

Correct. The system relies on a near-perfect press. Winning the ball higher up the field means less pressure on the back three...but anything less than full commitment and it unravels, as we've been seeing.

Today their third goal was even simpler. All it took was to lose a header about 40 yards out and they had a three on three resulting in a goal. That’s like a kids game. I found it difficult to believe we could be set up like that

 

[Willo]

The other major factor to consider is which manager is available immediately and whether such manager is vaguely competent.
I'm not really a fan of Howe, but in any event I think his self regard is such that he'd be looking at a bigger club than us

I liked Frank for much of his time at Brentford until he lost his way whereupon the stories emerged that his success was down to the way Brentford was run as opposed to Frank's managerial skills.

I think we've moved on from the likes of Dyche and I'm not sure he'd be a good fit for the squad anyway.

Any other suggestions for an experienced candidate ( not Roy)?

I do not subscribe to the assertion that Frank lost his way at Brentford.
In his last season the club finished in 10th Place (16th in the season before) and he only lost 2 of his last 10 matches at the club.
I would agree that Brentford's data-led recruitment has stood them in good stead.

 

[dynamicdick]

When I first saw him being interviewed in one of the pre season tournaments I thought he looked quite dour and if I were a player would I be motivated by him unlike Glasner who has charisma and made the atmosphere light except of course when he threw the toys out of his pram.
As someone else said the team are playing like his persona.
There is a reason why players who last season were playing well are now struggling for form such as Canvot and Wharton and why he has been made Captain is a mystery (maybe why he’s lost it) and in my opinion the manager must take most of the blame.
He’s in post to get the absolute best out of his players and mould them into a cohesive unit which, we are way off.
The danger signs are in plain sight and leading the way is our goals against, the highest in the league. We could have easily conceded 5 against Forest and that win just papered over the cracks!
Nice enough guy but the result today again showed our defensive frailties and against our biggest rivals …… Embarrassement to an Olympic standard!!

 

[Willo]

When I first saw him being interviewed in one of the pre season tournaments I thought he looked quite dour and if I were a player would I be motivated by him unlike Glasner who has charisma and made the atmosphere light except of course when he threw the toys out of his pram.
As someone else said the team are playing like his persona.
There is a reason why players who last season were playing well are now struggling for form such as Canvot and Wharton and why he has been made Captain is a mystery (maybe why he’s lost it) and in my opinion the manager must take most of the blame.
He’s in post to get the absolute best out of his players and mould them into a cohesive unit which, we are way off.
The danger signs are in plain sight and leading the way is our goals against, the highest in the league. We could have easily conceded 5 against Forest and that win just papered over the cracks!
Nice enough guy but the result today again showed our defensive frailties and against our biggest rivals …… Embarrassement to an Olympic standard!!

He reminded me of Frank De Boer and his tenure was ephemeral !
On the touchline, Sage remains motionless, offering no encouragement to the players at all resembling a rabbit caught in the headlights. Perhaps he is deep in thought analysing our team and opponents.

 

[eritheagle]

Out!!

Sadly as i want him to do well but i fear it's only gonna get worse!!

 

[PatFromSouthCarolina]

Get Hobbs and Lacey as far away from the club as possible and I’d be willing to ride or die with Sage for now.

 

[Willo]

I understand why Pierre Sage, as our manager, is being villified, however there have been extenuating circumstances.
In the summer, both Lacroix and Munoz departed.Our summer signings in defence have included Khalaili, Mingueza,Disasi and none of these have impressed. We purchased Tomiyasu who arrived with significant injury issues in recent seasons and he is now on the treatment table yet again.Riad has hardly played for us owing to injury.Ahanor is an 18yr old inexperienced defender.
Our acquisitions in midfield included McNeil, Osorio and Gozo and their contributions have been negligible.
Guessand was re-signed but was hardly impressive in his first spell at the club.
Both Mateta and Sarr, nearly 40 goals between them last season have barely featured.
These have been challenging times for Monsieur Sage and I had reservations about his appointment due to the loss of key players in recent seasons and the general player 'Churn'.

 

[bright&wright]

Get Hobbs and Lacey as far away from the club as possible and I’d be willing to ride or die with Sage for now.

I'm definitely in the Hobbs out group.

The Johnson/McNeil debacle, £50m panic buy on JSL, the summer mess. He's been hopeless and should be shouldering far more of the blame than Sage.

 

[Willo]

I'm definitely in the Hobbs out group.

The Johnson/McNeil debacle, £50m panic buy on JSL, the summer mess. He's been hopeless and should be shouldering far more of the blame than Sage.

I have heard the view that Sage has been dealt a bad hand and that perhaps the focus of ire should be shifted in a direction away from him.
In the final analysis managers get 'Shown the door' if results are disappointing irrespective of any extenuating circumstances.

 

[sprites]

When I first saw him being interviewed in one of the pre season tournaments I thought he looked quite dour and if I were a player would I be motivated by him unlike Glasner who has charisma and made the atmosphere light except of course when he threw the toys out of his pram.
As someone else said the team are playing like his persona.
There is a reason why players who last season were playing well are now struggling for form such as Canvot and Wharton and why he has been made Captain is a mystery (maybe why he’s lost it) and in my opinion the manager must take most of the blame.
He’s in post to get the absolute best out of his players and mould them into a cohesive unit which, we are way off.
The danger signs are in plain sight and leading the way is our goals against, the highest in the league. We could have easily conceded 5 against Forest and that win just papered over the cracks!
Nice enough guy but the result today again showed our defensive frailties and against our biggest rivals …… Embarrassement to an Olympic standard!!

On the contrary, however, we're seeing the best version of Kamada we've ever seen...Sage has somehow managed to turn him into a half decent player. And we're also seeing an improved Pino, in my opinion. So it's false to claim everyone's form has taken a hit.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

On the contrary, however, we're seeing the best version of Kamada we've ever seen...Sage has somehow managed to turn him into a half decent player. And we're also seeing an improved Pino, in my opinion. So it's false to claim everyone's form has taken a hit.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. These two are scoring every two or three games, which would be brilliant if we weren’t already 3–0 down after ten minutes.

And let’s be honest, we could have been in that position in several games. Today we finally came up against a side capable of taking the chances we keep handing out.

The press doesn’t look right, the defending was schoolboy stuff, and the manager looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. If you haven’t got the tools to play your preferred system, you adapt to what you have. You don’t keep exposing the same weaknesses and look mystified on the touch line when somebody exploits them.

Yes, he’s probably been dealt a bum hand with injuries, availability and player loss. But that doesn’t explain the lack of organisation and not acknowledging your system may be part of the issue.

Everton was an early warning- once they got one, they quickly got anothrr and Sage looked like a rabbit in headlights.

That keeps happening. Once teams work out how to unlock us, the door stays open. And with a Frenchman in charge, we seem to have combined hospitality with surrender - roll out the red carpet, wave the white flag, and have the game wrapped up before anyone’s broken a sweat.

If your three centre-backs already look unsure of what they’re doing, exposing them further is asking for trouble. Pulis/Hodgson had less talented players, but they gave them clear jobs and a structure they could function in. When you’re shipping goals like this, getting organised has to come first. Give your attacking players a platform instead of asking them to rescue a game that’s over before they’ve touched the ball.

I wasn’t a total Roy fan. Once he’d stabilised things, I thought his limitations held us back. But he could walk into a defensive shambles and organise it. Taking a side forward was a different matter.

Perhaps this manager could have been the person to build on that stability. But I wouldn’t trust him with a rebuild any more than I would Glasner.

The French league isn’t the Premier League. Here, teams will spot the weakness, put three or four past you and keep their foot on your throat. Today wasn’t some unforeseeable freak result. It was the warning signs finally becoming the scoreline.

 

[sprites]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. These two are scoring every two or three games, which would be brilliant if we weren’t already 3–0 down after ten minutes.

And let’s be honest, we could have been in that position in several games. Today we finally came up against a side capable of taking the chances we keep handing out.

The press doesn’t look right, the defending was schoolboy stuff, and the manager looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. If you haven’t got the tools to play your preferred system, you adapt to what you have. You don’t keep exposing the same weaknesses and look mystified on the touch line when somebody exploits them.

Yes, he’s probably been dealt a bum hand with injuries, availability and player loss. But that doesn’t explain the lack of organisation and not acknowledging your system may be part of the issue.

Everton was an early warning- once they got one, they quickly got anothrr and Sage looked like a rabbit in headlights.

That keeps happening. Once teams work out how to unlock us, the door stays open. And with a Frenchman in charge, we seem to have combined hospitality with surrender - roll out the red carpet, wave the white flag, and have the game wrapped up before anyone’s broken a sweat.

If your three centre-backs already look unsure of what they’re doing, exposing them further is asking for trouble. Pulis/Hodgson had less talented players, but they gave them clear jobs and a structure they could function in. When you’re shipping goals like this, getting organised has to come first. Give your attacking players a platform instead of asking them to rescue a game that’s over before they’ve touched the ball.

I wasn’t a total Roy fan. Once he’d stabilised things, I thought his limitations held us back. But he could walk into a defensive shambles and organise it. Taking a side forward was a different matter.

Perhaps this manager could have been the person to build on that stability. But I wouldn’t trust him with a rebuild any more than I would Glasner.

The French league isn’t the Premier League. Here, teams will spot the weakness, put three or four past you and keep their foot on your throat. Today wasn’t some unforeseeable freak result. It was the warning signs finally becoming the scoreline.

Fair assessment, can't argue with any of that. Suppose I'm just keen to give Sage a bit more time (til Christmas-ish) to solve it.