Sage in or out

[eaglesdare]

After yesterday I was Sage out....today im not sure. If he goes we could end up with Edwards (Hobbs has form)...at least he has shown some ability to attack & if hes given a half decent CB in January, it's up to him.

We also miss Deano, bring back our first choice captain, let Wharton focus on himself and we can get our season back on track, I dont see us getting anything out of Besiktas...but wouldn't that be the palace way? COYP and come on Pierre....lets start our season now.

I would honestly prefer 3 points and a clean sheet against Newcastle. 😅

 

[ASCPFC]

Bound to say out after yesterday. Making those fools look good.

 

[park the bus]

In the cold analytical light of day, Sage is trying to effect style of play with a group of players who are totally unsuited. I'd go as far to say that this is up there with the worst squads we've had since returning to the Premiership. Yes, there are one or two who are decent but collectively they are a shambles and lacking in ability. One of the fundamentals of the game, the ability to defend, has gone completely out the window. I look at the players Sage has to choose from and I am not surprised at all. There are no natural born leaders in this group, no Jedi, no Delaney, no Mili, no Cahill, Dann, or Ward, players who led by example - nothing, just a bunch of lightweights.
Any new manager will have a major problem knocking this sorry lot into shape.

 

[Canterbury Palace]

I somehow doubt there is an overall anticipation amongst our supporters that we will beat a free-scoring Besiktas in Istanbul.
Newcastle have lost their last 2 Away games 4-1 but we play them 3 days after returning from Turkey and I suspect our fan base are fearful of yet another defeat based on our frailties.

Besiktas are a decent side with a few players people will know. But they have lost a couple of games in the league and are playing this evening away, so we'll have a day extra to prepare.

I fear that Sage has already lost the dressing room and this is a team that won the FA Cup based on togetherness and team spirit. We have lost our leaders since then and it seems that nobody has stepped up to replace them. That void has been clear since Henderson got injured.

 

[wilelliott88]

I would honestly prefer 3 points and a clean sheet against Newcastle. 😅

A win in Turkey and a win at Selhurst...changes the seasons for Sage...2 defeats and I think hes gone!

 

[Willo]

In the cold analytical light of day, Sage is trying to effect style of play with a group of players who are totally unsuited. I'd go as far to say that this is up there with the worst squads we've had since returning to the Premiership. Yes, there are one or two who are decent but collectively they are a shambles and lacking in ability. One of the fundamentals of the game, the ability to defend, has gone completely out the window. I look at the players Sage has to choose from and I am not surprised at all. There are no natural born leaders in this group, no Jedi, no Delaney, no Mili, no Cahill, Dann, or Ward, players who led by example -nothing, just a bunch of lightweights.
Any new manager will have a major problem knocking this sorry lot into shape.

Some learned gentleman messaged me today with the words :
"The lightning rod might be dispensed with but it will still remain stormy".

 

[JHB]

In the cold analytical light of day, Sage is trying to effect style of play with a group of players who are totally unsuited. I'd go as far to say that this is up there with the worst squads we've had since returning to the Premiership. Yes, there are one or two who are decent but collectively they are a shambles and lacking in ability. One of the fundamentals of the game, the ability to defend, has gone completely out the window. I look at the players Sage has to choose from and I am not surprised at all. There are no natural born leaders in this group, no Jedi, no Delaney, no Mili, no Cahill, Dann, or Ward, players who led by example -nothing, just a bunch of lightweights.
Any new manager will have a major problem knocking this sorry lot into shape.

While I agree with a lot of this when the team was set up in a more balanced way against Leeds we were pretty solid defensively. So it can be done and I can’t believe a more experienced manager wouldn’t make us more solid

 

[PatrickA]

In the cold analytical light of day, Sage is trying to effect style of play with a group of players who are totally unsuited. I'd go as far to say that this is up there with the worst squads we've had since returning to the Premiership. Yes, there are one or two who are decent but collectively they are a shambles and lacking in ability. One of the fundamentals of the game, the ability to defend, has gone completely out the window. I look at the players Sage has to choose from and I am not surprised at all. There are no natural born leaders in this group, no Jedi, no Delaney, no Mili, no Cahill, Dann, or Ward, players who led by example -nothing, just a bunch of lightweights.
Any new manager will have a major problem knocking this sorry lot into shape.

It's a reasonable point.
Even in more recent times we've lost the competitive aggression of Munoz, Guehi and Lacroix who were all comfortable with physical duels and had a warrior like mentality in games.
Further forward ,as willing as they may be, Pino and Larsen are physically dominated in a way that does not happen with Sarr and Mateta.
In short we look lightweight.

 

[Willo]

While I agree with a lot of this when the team was set up in a more balanced way against Leeds we were pretty solid defensively. So it can be done and I can’t believe a more experienced manager wouldn’t make us more solid

Against Leeds we deployed Tomiyasu in the middle, Richards on the right and Canvot down the left.
Yesterday we had Richards in the middle (Not his best position), Canvot on the right with Ahanor on the left.
Personally I would not have started the inexperienced Ahanor in a game at Brighton, especially in an unsettled back three.Perhaps the return of Disasi in the middle with Richards on the right and Canvot down the left will improve our defensive solidity, however the latter gives me the jitters and is prone to costly errors.

 

[ASCPFC]

Several of our players are s*** and should be dropped. Yet, in many cases we have no one to come in. A back four would let us just have two of the very average centre backs we have, while letting us use three of our numerous multitude of number tens.

 

[park the bus]

My worry is that our club is heading down the Leicester City road. This team will struggle to survive in the Championship. It needs sorting now. Not sure anyone coming in today will stop the next two defeats but we need it changed now / today in my opinion.

It's following the West Ham model. Win a mickey mouse Euro trophy and the players and board think rather too highly of themselves and they are too good to be relegated and no further investment is needed, either in effort on the pitch or in acquisition of quality replacements for players sold, and then boom! And then the blame shifting starts, when in reality it was all too predictable.

 

[ASCPFC]

It's following the West Ham model. Win a mickey mouse Euro trophy and the players and board think rather too highly of themselves and they are too good to be relegated and no further investment is needed, either in effort on the pitch or in acquisition of quality replacements for players sold, and then boom! And then the blame shifting starts, when in reality it was all too predictable.

We can turn this around but it's going to take genuine intelligence and commitment. Clearly, clearly, clearly - the Sage system is not going to work, ever with these players. He has to change now, or we will likely go down. The system and instructions do not suit the players we have.
I'm sick of managers and systems, just play what is needed for that game or that group of players. No one should have one system.

 

[JHB]

Against Leeds we deployed Tomiyasu in the middle, Richards on the right and Canvot down the left.
Yesterday we had Richards in the middle (Not his best position), Canvot on the right with Ahanor on the left.
Personally I would not have started the inexperienced Ahanor in a game at Brighton, especially in an unsettled back three.Perhaps the return of Disasi in the middle with Richards on the right and Canvot down the left will improve our defensive solidity, however the latter gives me the jitters and is prone to costly errors.

Richards has to play on the right. I’d have Lerma in the centre and Honest on the left. Canvot has regressed and continuing to play him will damage his confidence. He is also just far too error prone at this level. It’s a shame Tomiyasu is injured but 100% predictable. He and Riad are made of bone china sadly.

As well as the novel idea of the centre backs playing in their correct positions the key is to tweak the shape of the team. Wing backs dropping back into a back five when we don’t have the ball which in turn means they are 15 yards further back to start with. Abandon our laughable attempts at high pressing and drop bodies into midfield so we are more difficult to pass through. Just so so obvious

 

[KCeee]

There’s usually a time delay with managerial sackings, so he’ll probably have a few more games to save himself. Only a completely inept club would sack a manager without a replacement lined up.


There are rumours circulating though that we’ve been sounding out Matos and Kieran McKenna.

 

[ASCPFC]

There’s usually a time delay with managerial sackings, so he’ll probably have a few more games to save himself. Only a completely inept club would sack a manager without a replacement lined up.


There are rumours circulating though that we’ve been sounding out Matos and Kieran McKenna.

We are inept.

 

[Putitout]

It's following the West Ham model. Win a mickey mouse Euro trophy and the players and board think rather too highly of themselves and they are too good to be relegated and no further investment is needed, either in effort on the pitch or in acquisition of quality replacements for players sold, and then boom! And then the blame shifting starts, when in reality it was all too predictable.

It has been predictable, it’s now a reality. The worry is , considering how predictable it has been we continue to stumble on.

 

[Willo]

There’s usually a time delay with managerial sackings, so he’ll probably have a few more games to save himself. Only a completely inept club would sack a manager without a replacement lined up.


There are rumours circulating though that we’ve been sounding out Matos and Kieran McKenna.

McKenna decided to take a break from football management and is now a technical observer for UEFA.

 

[Putitout]

Sometimes football comes up with miraculous recoveries, if one doesn’t happen and soon it’s just a case of when.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I'm on the fence, but leaning more towards giving Sage more time and support.

That is not because I have any strong reason to believe in Sage, though. It's because sacking the manager must always be the last resort when other options have been exhausted. Club stability is key, as is a clear and consistent message to the players, their agents, and the media that the board, Parish, Hobbs and the coach are all together as one, and that the players can't separate them and play one off against the other if they happen to dislike a particular manager. We see that so often at other clubs. Player power, sulking, division then, inevitably, collapse. No thanks.

I'd give Sage more time, but expect him to do things differently. His methods are poorly suited to the circumstances (which are not of his making) if they are even capable of working at all. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to tear up every single thing he believes in. I remain torn between (on one hand) knowing that we've never, ever seen a front-foot, attack minded Palace team do well in the premier league and (on the other hand) seeing other teams like Bournemouth do it.

I'm not against a more front-foot manager. If the end result of all this is that Palace win and lose games 3-2 instead of 1-0 on the way to finishing 12th again, then I'm fine with that. That is absolutely not what is happening, though. We have failed to score in more than half of our league games. There is no single part of the current approach that seems promising.

Regarding Sage's almost religious faith in the 343 system, I actually don't mind a bit of tactical inflexibility. To me, there is as much to be said for consistency and clarity as there is for flexibility and adaptability. If he had changed between systems in his games so far, we would all be moaning that he doesn't know his best team and formation, and should nail one down and given it a chance to work. In this case, though, Sage really does have to go back to the drawing board.

As to what Parish may do: Going back, I thought Pardew was very unlucky to be sacked (to the point it seemed unjust), and had similar feelings when Vieira got the bullet. They both had loads more time than Sage, of course, and form and results had tailed off, but I just felt both managers had shown enough previously to assure me they would fix it. They had both been able to put together viable premier league Palace teams for sustained periods. Sage doesn't have that credit in the bank. I don't know that he can produce a stable team at Palace, and what little evidence there is doesn't go in his favour.

At least give him the chance to change, though.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

3-4-2-1 is an absolutely awful system, it is impossible to play consistently, if was any good all the top teams would be playing it, and they don't, it has to change to a back 4, if Sage cant do that, sack him, after all 4-4-2 was Gleasner's favourite formation 🤣, change or die.