Plight of Farmers.

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Not if it is passed on 7 years before the death of the last surviving parent. Perhaps it was you that missed my point.

How can anyone know if an ageing parent will live 7 more years? It is hardly security.

I doubt many people will want to hand over their property while they are alive. That has its own potential problems.

 

[georgenorman]

You pay tax wherever you live, even if your income is taxed in your home country. All tax goes to paying for things we do together, via our elected representatives. If you choose not to use your share that’s your decision. It’s there for you as a right.

That's obviously not true.

 

[Mapletree]

And how does IHT work on corporations based offshore or not?

Not I. I said we need land reform. I hope the government will take action.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Not I. I said we need land reform. I hope the government will take action.

What is the land reform you wish for?

 

[Mapletree]

What is the land reform you wish for?

One example, as articulated by the James Hutton Institute.

The purpose of land reform in Scotland maybe summarised as:

• to reduce the negative impacts of concentrated private landownership,
• to increase the diversity of landownership types and scale of landholdings,
• to increase accountability and transparency of landownership, and
• to rebalance rights of private landownership with responsibility.

 

[Penge Eagle]

One example, as articulated by the James Hutton Institute.

The purpose of land reform in Scotland maybe summarised as:

• to reduce the negative impacts of concentrated private landownership,
• to increase the diversity of landownership types and scale of landholdings,
• to increase accountability and transparency of landownership, and
• to rebalance rights of private landownership with responsibility.

Who says there needs to be land reform? A bunch of socialists say so and the suggestions are... socialist solutions (shock). Forced community land ownership; "responsibility" ie forced 'climate change' actions and more costs, government interference and bureaucracy. That'll end well. I don't think any of this benefits farmers or the public.

 

[Tim Gypsy Hill '64]

Not if it is passed on 7 years before the death of the last surviving parent. Perhaps it was you that missed my point.

Nope, I didn't miss your point, I wanted to be clear what you wanted. You have now nailed your colours to the mast, so I understand your position. This is about transfer of wealth and land to you, that is what matters to you. And I understand why you want that, you want equality for everyone. That is a noble aspiration. But, like every 'leveling up' initiative, it is doomed to fail. The people who are born into farming learn how to farm before they go to school, they then go on and get further education. Like the child prodigy who learns the piano, they progress. They don't get the education later in life. You are born into it. It is not just a job, farming is a way of life. It is instilled. You cannot learn that.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

IHT is paid by individuals not companies or corporations.

That was exactly my point and why I asked 🤦‍♂️

 

[Eden Eagle]

Not if it is passed on 7 years before the death of the last surviving parent. Perhaps it was you that missed my point.

It is not quite as easy as you make out Mapletree - gifting a property and continuing to live in it would be deemed a “gift with reservation of benefits” as far as IHT is concerned and unless the donor pays the donee the market rate for rental to continue to live in the property it would be considered void for IHT purposes.

So the older farmer needs to evidence that he is paying rent at the market rate (inland revenue would need to see bank accounts confirming this) and the family member would then be liable for income tax on the rent received.

If it was this easy everyone would gift their house to their children continue to live in it and avoid the largest contributor to their IHT liability.

 

[georgenorman]

One example, as articulated by the James Hutton Institute.

The purpose of land reform in Scotland maybe summarised as:

• to reduce the negative impacts of concentrated private landownership,
• to increase the diversity of landownership types and scale of landholdings,
• to increase accountability and transparency of landownership, and
• to rebalance rights of private landownership with responsibility.

I expect Lenin and Robert Mugabe said something similar.

 

[Mapletree]

Nope, I didn't miss your point, I wanted to be clear what you wanted. You have now nailed your colours to the mast, so I understand your position. This is about transfer of wealth and land to you, that is what matters to you. And I understand why you want that, you want equality for everyone. That is a noble aspiration. But, like every 'leveling up' initiative, it is doomed to fail. The people who are born into farming learn how to farm before they go to school, they then go on and get further education. Like the child prodigy who learns the piano, they progress. They don't get the education later in life. You are born into it. It is not just a job, farming is a way of life. It is instilled. You cannot learn that.

Better tell my daughter then. She will be so disappointed having studied for five years and been mentored by several farmers for around 14.

 

[Mapletree]

It is not quite as easy as you make out Mapletree - gifting a property and continuing to live in it would be deemed a “gift with reservation of benefits” as far as IHT is concerned and unless the donor pays the donee the market rate for rental to continue to live in the property it would be considered void for IHT purposes.

So the older farmer needs to evidence that he is paying rent at the market rate (inland revenue would need to see bank accounts confirming this) and the family member would then be liable for income tax on the rent received.

If it was this easy everyone would gift their house to their children continue to live in it and avoid the largest contributor to their IHT liability.

I am fully aware having set up FBTs. There are ways to manage things. And many many Trusts already in place.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Maple, defender of DEI jobs, pen pushers and busy body jobs in HR.....but oh lets shake a fist at those rich farmers.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It is not quite as easy as you make out Mapletree - gifting a property and continuing to live in it would be deemed a “gift with reservation of benefits” as far as IHT is concerned and unless the donor pays the donee the market rate for rental to continue to live in the property it would be considered void for IHT purposes.

So the older farmer needs to evidence that he is paying rent at the market rate (inland revenue would need to see bank accounts confirming this) and the family member would then be liable for income tax on the rent received.

If it was this easy everyone would gift their house to their children continue to live in it and avoid the largest contributor to their IHT liability.

This is true and why they need to take skilled advice from specialists on how to structure their business in the best way for their own circumstances. Forming partnerships or writing agreements that transfer beneficial interest need to be done carefully. They can though be done.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That's obviously not true.

Give us an example of where you think it is spent elsewhere!

 

[Spiderman]

It is not quite as easy as you make out Mapletree - gifting a property and continuing to live in it would be deemed a “gift with reservation of benefits” as far as IHT is concerned and unless the donor pays the donee the market rate for rental to continue to live in the property it would be considered void for IHT purposes.

So the older farmer needs to evidence that he is paying rent at the market rate (inland revenue would need to see bank accounts confirming this) and the family member would then be liable for income tax on the rent received.

If it was this easy everyone would gift their house to their children continue to live in it and avoid the largest contributor to their IHT liability.

Is the correct answer. We explored this with my late mother-in-laws house.

 

[Mapletree]

Maple, defender of DEI jobs, pen pushers and busy body jobs in HR.....but oh lets shake a fist at those rich farmers.

Rather land owners. Not farmers. Especially those that encourage raping of the land and that don't pay proper UK tax. People that do nothing for a living but sponge off the rest of us by fortune of birth which is their 'right'. And, at the other end, by being feckless too and grasping every chance to milk the system. Because of them, those in need don't get the help we can and should provide.

 

[Spiderman]

Rather land owners. Not farmers. Especially those that encourage raping of the land and that don't pay proper UK tax. People that do nothing for a living but sponge off the rest of us by fortune of birth which is their 'right'. And, at the other end, by being feckless too and grasping every chance to milk the system. Because of them, those in need don't get the help we can and should provide.

Let’s hope the land isn’t bought up by Gates or multi nationals intent on turning our farmland into solar or wind farms then

 

[georgenorman]

Give us an example of where you think it is spent elsewhere!

You want a list of tax funded things that don’t all do together? You ask for one example - how about the £8 million we send to China in foreign-aid (down from £80 million in 2019).

 

[Stirlingsays]

Rather land owners. Not farmers. Especially those that encourage raping of the land and that don't pay proper UK tax. People that do nothing for a living but sponge off the rest of us by fortune of birth which is their 'right'. And, at the other end, by being feckless too and grasping every chance to milk the system. Because of them, those in need don't get the help we can and should provide.

If that is happening in some cases then fair enough but I have to say I don't trust Starmer and Reeves and co that their changes only do that.