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Pakistan v England Cricket thread

This one is finely balanced; all down to the spinners at the moment.
In their game with New Zealand India were all out for 46 of which Pant scored 20. Bet they didn't see that coming.
 
Whatever they've done to the pitch it's working for them so far. Spinning and a few keeping low. Need Duckett and Brook to steady the ship.
 
This just isn't good enough.

You only have to look at Pakistan's home record and in fact have watched their players to see it.....They are nothing special at all.

I've said it many times there are too many highly paid England players with quite frankly averages that don't reflect that worth.

This is a talent game, not a 'he's a nice fella we get on with' game......However, I regard the English team and the ECB in general as being far more of the latter than the former.

Plenty of Agnews and not enough Boycotts and Bothams.

Too much good money going to mediocracy.

If Stokes wants to tell us these are the best batsman/bowlers in England.....which I regard as probably 7/10 tenth the truth then that isn't a defence of their pay levels. They should be paid in relation to how good they are results wise.
 
I've always been a big fan of Pope, but I'm starting to doubt that now.......averages over an extended length of time don't lie.

He has all the talent but so did Ramprakash.

Pope might be exactly that....A little better but essentially the new Ramprakash.

Ramps averaged over fifty in a long county career but only high twenties in tests.....and he was given many chances.

And to be fair to Ramprakash I think his era contained more gun international bowlers.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I've always been a big fan of Pope, but I'm starting to doubt that now.......averages over an extended length of time don't lie.

He has all the talent but so did Ramprakash.

Pope might be exactly that....A little better but essentially the new Ramprakash.

Ramps averaged over fifty in a long county career but only high twenties in tests.....and he was given many chances.

And to be fair to Ramprakash I think his era contained more gun international bowlers.
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Yep. Graeme Hick too.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I've always been a big fan of Pope, but I'm starting to doubt that now.......averages over an extended length of time don't lie.

He has all the talent but so did Ramprakash.

Pope might be exactly that....A little better but essentially the new Ramprakash.

Ramps averaged over fifty in a long county career but only high twenties in tests.....and he was given many chances.

And to be fair to Ramprakash I think his era contained more gun international bowlers.
Click to expand...
I would rate Ramprakash significantly higher than Pope. Different eras and in many ways a different game as you say, but MR on his day was as good as anyone.
 
RubinsCube said:
I would rate Ramprakash significantly higher than Pope. Different eras and in many ways a different game as you say, but MR on his day was as good as anyone.
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Both are very talented and certainly Ramprakash should have averaged somewhere between Atherton's 38 and Thorpe's 44 and he was more naturally talented than Hussain who ended up with a 37 average.

Those players had to deal with the same bowlers and it seems that like Hick (who probably had more talent than all of them) the problem was between the ears and unfortunately it appears that Pope is somewhat similar.

At the end of the day Thorpe was the best English batsman of the period (his mental and relationship problems didn't seem to impact his cricket). Thorpe deserved the professional plaudits that accompanied his recent unfortunate passing.
 
ASCPFC said:
Brilliant for Worcestershire but maybe only one or two good innings for England. I get the feeling that he was Zimbabwean and had maybe even played for them.
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From memory he didn't play tests for England till 25 due to an extensive qualifying period.

Also from memory he didn't start great against fast short pitched bowling and the county game with its lack of real pace might have been a little to blame for that.....though once again, it's an excuse as that was the same for all the batsman.

Hick got called a flat track bully and I think he allowed doubt to creep into his game. Like Ramprakash he should have done a lot better, but there you go.....it's not just about raw talent, you need that mental side.....at the top the ability to keep out the good balls is just as important as the impressive scoring shots.
 
Stirlingsays said:
From memory he didn't play tests for England till 25 due to an extensive qualifying period.

Also from memory he didn't start great against fast short pitched bowling and the county game with its lack of real pace might have been a little to blame for that.....though once again, it's an excuse as that was the same for all the batsman.

Hick got called a flat track bully and I think he allowed doubt to creep into his game. Like Ramprakash he should have done a lot better, but there you go.....it's not just about raw talent, you need that mental side.....at the top the ability to keep out the good balls is just as important as the impressive scoring shots.
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As we know the mental side of the game been a problem for a number of batsmen, Trott and Trescothick come to mind but there will be others who didn't get the opportunities to establish themselves.
It's a truism that as hard as it is getting to the top staying there is even harder.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Both are very talented and certainly Ramprakash should have averaged somewhere between Atherton's 38 and Thorpe's 44 and he was more naturally talented than Hussain who ended up with a 37 average.

Those players had to deal with the same bowlers and it seems that like Hick (who probably had more talent than all of them) the problem was between the ears and unfortunately it appears that Pope is somewhat similar.

At the end of the day Thorpe was the best English batsman of the period (his mental and relationship problems didn't seem to impact his cricket). Thorpe deserved the professional plaudits that accompanied his recent unfortunate passing.
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Agreed with all of that. In my head I think MR could absolutely have reached a test average of 50 or above if he could have applied his latter day domestic form to the international scene earlier. All ifs and buts.

I was lucky enough to witness this first hand: BBC SPORT | Cricket | Justin Langer column
 
RubinsCube said:
Agreed with all of that. In my head I think MR could absolutely have reached a test average of 50 or above if he could have applied his latter day domestic form to the international scene earlier. All ifs and buts.

I was lucky enough to witness this first hand: BBC SPORT | Cricket | Justin Langer column
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English cricket seems to have more than its fair share of unfulfilled potential.....it's relative of course, as an English cap is already a heady achievement in life reached by few who covet it.
 
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