Main Stand redevelopment thread

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Ah yes, that's right.
Still, point is I can't see much reason to think that changing the materials will compromise the plan to retain the old main stand and build around it, rather than flatten it from the start.

That seems like quite a clever and complicated thing to do. Good, though. If they can actually do it.

I'm sure they will stick with the original plan. It's only unforseen circumstances that could derail it.

 

[Painter]

(EDIT) With other clubs planning to increase capacity it does make you wonder if Selhurst Park will ever compete in the long term.

The most seats we could get in the Whitehorse would 8.5k with a cantilever stand going back over the store and a rake so steep that you would need climbing equipment and that is assuming the evacuation times could be met. That would take us to around 41k. The corner could be filled in between the WHL and AW so that would add some more. Some might think that is enough.

The Arthur would not benefit from a steeper rake and another tier would block light to the houses behind.

So, the only options are to buy Sainsbury's out and or buy and demolish the housing behind the AW, or relocate to go bigger

That would cost a lot of money. So unless someone is prepared to take that on, we are stuck where we are.

The chance of Sainsburys ever selling the site is zero, why would they. Then all the houses behind as well, how many years did it take to move the residents out Wooderson Close!
I doubt we could ever fill a stadium of more than 36,000 on a regular basis, talk of our catchment area has been talked about for years, but in reality football is pricing itself out of the less devoted fans. Once the European Super League goes ahead, which it will in time, the revenue for clubs like Palace will drop over a cliff.

 

[Part Time James]

All the ins and outs of whether it's financially prudent... don't care. I fancy a shiny new stand. Lovely.

 

[Willo]

The chance of Sainsburys ever selling the site is zero, why would they. Then all the houses behind as well, how many years did it take to move the residents out Wooderson Close!
I doubt we could ever fill a stadium of more than 36,000 on a regular basis, talk of our catchment area has been talked about for years, but in reality football is pricing itself out of the less devoted fans. Once the European Super League goes ahead, which it will in time, the revenue for clubs like Palace will drop over a cliff.

W.Ham have sold 45,000 season tickets for the coming season, playing in the Championship and in a stadium where the distance between the stands and the pitch has drawn negative comments in relation to the atmosphere and overall matchday experience.

 

[Painter]

W.Ham have sold 45,000 season tickets for the coming season, playing in the Championship and in a stadium where the distance between the stands and the pitch has drawn negative comments in relation to the atmosphere and overall matchday experience.

West Ham are a bigger club and have a far bigger established fans base than us. We used to have 7000-8000 in the 80's whilst they were selling out Upton Park.

 

[Willo]

West Ham are a bigger club and have a far bigger established fans base than us. We used to have 7000-8000 in the 80's whilst they were selling out Upton Park.

I am in agreement with this statement.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The chance of Sainsburys ever selling the site is zero, why would they. Then all the houses behind as well, how many years did it take to move the residents out Wooderson Close!
I doubt we could ever fill a stadium of more than 36,000 on a regular basis, talk of our catchment area has been talked about for years, but in reality football is pricing itself out of the less devoted fans. Once the European Super League goes ahead, which it will in time, the revenue for clubs like Palace will drop over a cliff.

I think that 40k is a reasonable target in the forseeable future.
I see no reason to be forever negative and retain a small club mentality.

In the 79/80 season we had an average crowd of a tad under 30k. The highest was 45k and the lowest 19k. Since then, crowds have generally increased where ground capacity has allowed. I would expect us to fill the 34k quite easily now and imagine that continued success would push us up to the 40k mark.

I know this for sure. If you don't build a 40k stadium, then you wont get 40k.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I think that 40k is a reasonable target in the forseeable future.
I see no reason to be forever negative and retain a small club mentality.

In the 79/80 season we had an average crowd of a tad under 30k. The highest was 45k and the lowest 19k. Since then, crowds have generally increased where ground capacity has allowed. I would expect us to fill the 34k quite easily now and imagine that continued success would push us up to the 40k mark.

I know this for sure. If you don't build a 40k stadium, then you wont get 40k.

I have made this point before, so apologies for repetition.

A capacity of 40,000 could certainly be achieved if the right deal could be done with Sainsbury's.

As can be seen from an aerial shot of selhurst, there is a large enough space between the pitch and the houses on Whitehorse Lane to replace the current stand and supermarket with a mirror of the Holmesdale stand. The Whitehorse Lane houses do not have back gardens or, I believe, rear windows, and so would not be impacted.

A project like that would replace the current 2300 capacity stand with an 8300 capacity one, an uplift of 6000. Selhurst will hold 34000 after the new main stand is finished, so there's 40000 seats overall.

Of course, Sainsbury's aren't just going to roll over and say yes, and they certainly aren't going to just disappear, but I wonder if perhaps a project like that might involve us building them a replacement store under the new stand. It's not Impossible.

The Arthur is a very different matter. As poor as it's facilities are, it holds 9500 already. Even if we replaced it with a mirror image of the new main stand, we'd only get an uplift of 4000 in capacity. Hard to see that paying for itself effectively.

Plus, there are far too many houses far too close on Park Road that would have their light and outlook decimated. There isn't a reality in which that doesn't matter or can be overcome. Perhaps, if we were a champions league regular, we could look at buying them to knock them down and replace them, but it would be fraught with difficulties. Some sort of compromise renovation of the Arthur makes more sense.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I have made this point before, so apologies for repetition.

A capacity of 40,000 could certainly be achieved if the right deal could be done with Sainsbury's.

As can be seen from an aerial shot of selhurst, there is a large enough space between the pitch and the houses on Whitehorse Lane to replace the current stand and supermarket with a mirror of the Holmesdale stand. The Whitehorse Lane houses do not have back gardens or, I believe, rear windows, and so would not be impacted.

A project like that would replace the current 2300 capacity stand with an 8300 capacity one, an uplift of 6000. Selhurst will hold 34000 after the new main stand is finished, so there's 40000 seats overall.

Of course, Sainsbury's aren't just going to roll over and say yes, and they certainly aren't going to just disappear, but I wonder if perhaps a project like that might involve us building them a replacement store under the new stand. It's not Impossible.

The Arthur is a very different matter. As poor as it's facilities are, it holds 9500 already. Even if we replaced it with a mirror image of the new main stand, we'd only get an uplift of 4000 in capacity. Hard to see that paying for itself effectively.

Plus, there are far too many houses far too close on Park Road that would have their light and outlook decimated. There isn't a reality in which that doesn't matter or can be overcome. Perhaps, if we were a champions league regular, we could look at buying them to knock them down and replace them, but it would be fraught with difficulties. Some sort of compromise renovation of the Arthur makes more sense.

I believe we have the right to build in the airspace above Sainsbury's. In that case, the only issues would be construction safety, evacuation and building the architecture in a tight space with limited access. The Arthur needs to be upgraded. Remove the stanchions, install a new roof truss and improve facilities. If we have 40K already then the question of increasing its capacity will not arise in the near future.

 

[mileend]

W.Ham have sold 45,000 season tickets for the coming season, playing in the Championship and in a stadium where the distance between the stands and the pitch has drawn negative comments in relation to the atmosphere and overall matchday experience.

The way West Ham filled the Olympic stadium after moving from Upton Park was pretty easy.

They sold the season tickets for about £250 per season with a two season commitment

We could sell out 41,000 if we made it cheap enough and in the premier league

 

[Willo]

The way West Ham filled the Olympic stadium after moving from Upton Park was pretty easy.

They sold the season tickets for about £250 per season with a two season commitment

We could sell out 41,000 if we made it cheap enough and in the premier league

W.Ham have been playing at the 'London Stadium' since 2016.
I am not in receipt of information apropos the price of season tickets for the coming campaign.

 

[Painter]

The way West Ham filled the Olympic stadium after moving from Upton Park was pretty easy.

They sold the season tickets for about £250 per season with a two season commitment

We could sell out 41,000 if we made it cheap enough and in the premier league

Thats a cunning plan, sell season tickets at reduced rate for 2 seasons at £250. That will reduce the current revenue from season tickets in half.

With a £150m-£200m investment in building, that makes perfect sense!

 

[ASCPFC]

Thats a cunning plan, sell season tickets at reduced rate for 2 seasons at £250. That will reduce the current revenue from season tickets in half.

With a £150m-£200m investment in building, that makes perfect sense!

I think he means if we did have a huge capacity, we could fill it by doing that. Clearly, we can't do it now.

 

[mtp1958]

West Ham are a bigger club and have a far bigger established fans base than us. We used to have 7000-8000 in the 80's whilst they were selling out Upton Park.

Sorry can't agree there I would go to west ham sometimes with friends in the 80s , most times it was no were near full as it was mostly standing , it always looks more with that , our ground was bigger only 2 roofs lots of open terraces that would have put alot of people off , and we was just going through a transition period with the team and ground ,

we are in a totally different position than then , our support has grown , and as you know once you choose Palace you can't stop following them , people have tried one big result against big clubs and suddenly they say see my team thrashed you lol ,

 

[mileend]

I think he means if we did have a huge capacity, we could fill it by doing that. Clearly, we can't do it now.

exactly

West Ham went from 35,000 at Upton Park to 65,000 gates and filled it by selling seats cheaply

obviously their plan was then to increase the prices in later years on once people got used to going - which seems to have worked out despite their supporters constant complaints about hating the stadium - so the plan to build the supporter base has worked - but happily not much else at their club!

If Palace went from 26,000 to 41,000 we could sell those tickets in the premier league with aggressive pricing - but moot point as it'll be years before we get to 34,000 and I doubt we'd need many special offers to sell the extra 8,000 in the PL

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I believe we have the right to build in the airspace above Sainsbury's. In that case, the only issues would be construction safety, evacuation and building the architecture in a tight space with limited access. The Arthur needs to be upgraded. Remove the stanchions, install a new roof truss and improve facilities. If we have 40K already then the question of increasing its capacity will not arise in the near future.

First I've ever heard of any rights of that type. If that's the case then the whole idea becomes far more realistic.

In my idle daydreams I often conclude that the key to tying a redeveloped ground together is to reroof the Holmesdale with something that curves down from the main stand to a flat roof, then curves sheet again to meet a new Arthur roof, and do the same over the Whitehorse.

 

[Norbury Old Git]

First I've ever heard of any rights of that type. If that's the case then the whole idea becomes far more realistic.

In my idle daydreams I often conclude that the key to tying a redeveloped ground together is to reroof the Holmesdale with something that curves down from the main stand to a flat roof, then curves sheet again to meet a new Arthur roof, and do the same over the Whitehorse.

Ron Noades arranged for the rights when the land was sold for the supermarket. It was intended to build a proper second tier over the shop floor as part of the 48,000 development. If you go inside the you can see just how thick the supporting columns are, far more than is necessary for the existing structure. Part of the sale was that the access road past the supermarket entrance and box office would remain in the Club’s ownership to ensure the Right of Way. I don’t think there has been any change to this.

 

[ASCPFC]

Ron Noades arranged for the rights when the land was sold for the supermarket. It was intended to build a proper second tier over the shop floor as part of the 48,000 development. If you go inside the you can see just how thick the supporting columns are, far more than is necessary for the existing structure. Part of the sale was that the access road past the supermarket entrance and box office would remain in the Club’s ownership to ensure the Right of Way. I don’t think there has been any change to this.

There was something about this during the Jordan reign. Can't remember exactly what. Don't think the club had the rights.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

You'd think if the club had rights to build over Sainsbury's then far more attention would have been paid to doing so in recent years, rather than (or at least as well as) a project requiring us to buy land from Sainsbury's and houses from the council just to demolish them etc.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

There was something about this during the Jordan reign. Can't remember exactly what. Don't think the club had the rights.

From AI mode.

Yes, Crystal Palace retained the airspace rights allowing them to build over the Whitehorse Lane Sainsbury's store. [1, 2]
When the club faced major financial difficulties around 1980, they sold the patch of land to Sainsbury's for £2 million to ease cash flow. However, the club explicitly retained the building and airspace rights above the supermarket. This unique historical contract allowed them to construct executive boxes directly on top of the store's roof in 1991. [1, 2]
While the current, major stadium expansion focuses entirely on redeveloping the Main Stand (which required buying a separate sliver of the Sainsbury's car park), the airspace rights mean that any future redevelopment of the Whitehorse Lane stand could theoretically see a larger tier built directly over the supermarket