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Labour Party politics

CPFCSaturn said:
I'm not sure I agree that a list of Tory tax increases is proving your point that Labour are the party of tax increases.
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Let's be clear.

All governments will raise taxes. The Tories prefer low taxes. They put taxes on luxury goods where they can and people choose to spend or not.
Labour will tax and spend regardless of the political climate, often for ideological reasons. They won't give you a choice because they prefer to tax at source. They made a promise on income tax and have been finding ways to tax by other means. If the money was spent wisely, it would be such a problem, but that never seems to happen under Labour. We end up broke and no better off.

Of course, you can blame economic circumstances which are outside their control, but it is the job of chancellor to negotiate choppy waters with good decisions.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Let's be clear.

All governments will raise taxes. The Tories prefer low taxes. They put taxes on luxury goods where they can and people choose to spend or not.
Labour will tax and spend regardless of the political climate, often for ideological reasons. They won't give you a choice because they prefer to tax at source. They made a promise on income tax and have been finding ways to tax by other means. If the money was spent wisely, it would be such a problem, but that never seems to happen under Labour. We end up broke and no better off.

Of course, you can blame economic circumstances which are outside their control, but it is the job of chancellor to negotiate choppy waters with good decisions.
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And I think this is as biased a conclusion as you could hope to reach, based on decade-old tropes and very little basis in reality.

Is VAT a luxury tax? Is corporation tax a luxury tax? Did the Tories spend the money wisely? Did we not end up 'broke and no better off'..?

None of what you're saying is remotely unique to Labour.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
And I think this is as biased a conclusion as you could hope to reach, based on decade-old tropes and very little basis in reality.

Is VAT a luxury tax? Is corporation tax a luxury tax? Did the Tories spend the money wisely? Did we not end up 'broke and no better off'..?

None of what you're saying is remotely unique to Labour.
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Arguably.

The Tories spent billions on Covid. Have you forgotten already? They kept people in jobs.

I'm not here to defend the Tories, but please don't defend the current bunch of morons.

I will be voting Reform. My priorities are about preserving what is left of Great Britain for my grandchildren. Labour and the Tories have helped destroy it over the past 60 years.
 
The overall tax burden is at an all time high and I think it was or just about under the previous government.

Why is this? Yes we have more people but in theory more tax revenue. The reason is because governments plural have become addicted to spending our money.
 
Badger11 said:
The overall tax burden is at an all time high and I think it was or just about under the previous government.

Why is this? Yes we have more people but in theory more tax revenue. The reason is because governments plural have become addicted to spending our money.
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Since the financial rash in 2008 there’s been a global acceptance of rising debt levels, and countries have felt it’s ok because the others are doing it. I find it hard to believe that neither Italy, Spain or even France haven’t gone bankrupt or had a real economic crisis again.

Well I suppose 25% unemployment for young people is bad enough, (and Starmer agreeing EU youngsters will be welcome here. Be careful what you wish for UK kids)
 
Badger11 said:
The overall tax burden is at an all time high and I think it was or just about under the previous government.

Why is this? Yes we have more people but in theory more tax revenue. The reason is because governments plural have become addicted to spending our money.
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Surely, immigration is a big factor. The benefit of increased population was a lie. Many of us knew that all along.
The cost of catering for the extra people must place a bigger burden on the taxpayer. Just the cost of up keeping infrastructure alone must rise since we are still relying on Victorian plumbing and pre WW2 housing. We have vastly increased traffic and the need for far greater energy supply, not to mention new reservoirs to provide enough fresh water, the cost of which will fall on the taxpayer on way or another.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Arguably.

The Tories spent billions on Covid. Have you forgotten already? They kept people in jobs.

I'm not here to defend the Tories, but please don't defend the current bunch of morons.

I will be voting Reform. My priorities are about preserving what is left of Great Britain for my grandchildren. Labour and the Tories have helped destroy it over the past 60 years.
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But you are defending the Tories, that’s my point - by continuing to repeat tropes which paint them to still be a party of low tax and low spending versus the big bad Labour, you are continuing the fairy tale that there is a meaningful difference between their fiscal policies and that we have choice in our democracy.

I haven’t said one thing in favour of or in defence of Labour - I just accept the reality that both parties are cut from the same stinkingly flawed cloth.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
But you are defending the Tories, that’s my point - by continuing to repeat tropes which paint them to still be a party of low tax and low spending versus the big bad Labour, you are continuing the fairy tale that there is a meaningful difference between their fiscal policies and that we have choice in our democracy.

I haven’t said one thing in favour of or in defence of Labour - I just accept the reality that both parties are cut from the same stinkingly flawed cloth.
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Well, I for one am glad you are for slashing state spending, taxation and government in general - welcome!
 
CPFCSaturn said:
But you are defending the Tories, that’s my point - by continuing to repeat tropes which paint them to still be a party of low tax and low spending versus the big bad Labour, you are continuing the fairy tale that there is a meaningful difference between their fiscal policies and that we have choice in our democracy.

I haven’t said one thing in favour of or in defence of Labour - I just accept the reality that both parties are cut from the same stinkingly flawed cloth.
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We seem to be disagreeing on detail.
Voting for me has always been for the least bad option, and that has never been Labour.

I'm happy to conclude with an agreement on your last sentence.
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Since the financial rash in 2008 there’s been a global acceptance of rising debt levels, and countries have felt it’s ok because the others are doing it. I find it hard to believe that neither Italy, Spain or even France haven’t gone bankrupt or had a real economic crisis again.

Well I suppose 25% unemployment for young people is bad enough, (and Starmer agreeing EU youngsters will be welcome here. Be careful what you wish for UK kids)
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Politicians in opposition often complain about the government (which ever) cutting benefits yet the reality is that year on year the total amount of benefits keeps rising. Any so called cuts are often just headlines for the tabloids as they are fiddling around at the edges.

In the last 40 years I don't not think we have had any real cuts just people not getting as much money as they like..
 
Badger11 said:
Politicians in opposition often complain about the government (which ever) cutting benefits yet the reality is that year on year the total amount of benefits keeps rising. Any so called cuts are often just headlines for the tabloids as they are fiddling around at the edges.

In the last 40 years I don't not think we have had any real cuts just people not getting as much money as they like..
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There will be a reckoning eventually.
 
Abortion is normally a topic I keep away from because I am conflicted. I can see merits in both sides of the argument. Essentially I believe it's a woman's right to make decisions about her own body however I am queasy at the huge numbers of abortions each year.

Yesterday's vote mainly by Labour in favour of decriminalising abortion though is a joke. In theory a woman can abort her baby the day before she is due to deliver and will not face any sanctions. I think most people would consider that as murder.

I am not suggesting that she be thrown in prison for life but she should face justice and let a court decide what is appropriate in her case. However it appears that the police are not interested and neither are the left.

This is a step too far and shame on Parliament for slipping this through during the dog days of summer.
 
georgenorman said:
Increased the tax burden and wasted ever increasing sums of money on mad schemes.
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The tax burden increased under the last Tory fiasco of a government,all done by stealth such as not raising the tax allowances and tinkering with pensions. Taxes will rise for the forseeable future, think about petrol revenue and electric vehicles and the eventual end of tobacco another tax yielder that will wither away,both tax streams will have to be replaced. I have to say you are kind enough to make your posts mercifully short.
 
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