Labour Party politics

[georgenorman]

That's a very generous take on Truss.

We haven't had a proper economic change in direction since Thatcher and the outcomes of Thatcher's neoliberalism (or whatever you want to label it) are clear to see; declining living standards, failing public services, exploding wealth inequality - the idea that we just need even less state intervention to fix it is absurd to me.

Saturn broadcasts from Uranus.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Tropes?
It is either true or it isn't.

Labour spend money, and they raise tax to do it. The problem is that they often don't spend the money wisely.
When they got in this time, the tax burden was already high. They had to invent the black hole in order to justify raising it even higher. Predictable and predicted.

We have seen an increase in employers national insurance that will hit jobs and hurt people's pockets indirectly. Will they break another election promise and raise income tax?

Reeves keeps coming up with money to sling it here and there. Have they filled that black hole already?

As do every government ever! That's literally my point.

So the tax burden already high when they got in... how did that come about..?

On one hand you cite Covid & Ukraine, but on the other accuse Labour of inventing the idea that the economy was a mess... that seems contradictory.

Specifically, how have Labour increased the tax burden? And what frugal spending commitments could you highlight?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

That's a very generous take on Truss.

We haven't had a proper economic change in direction since Thatcher and the outcomes of Thatcher's neoliberalism (or whatever you want to label it) are clear to see; declining living standards, failing public services, exploding wealth inequality - the idea that we just need even less state intervention to fix it is absurd to me.

Big state costs big money.
One of the biggest problems in this country is the waste of tax payers money by the state. The NHS, The Police, The Civil Service. The Welfare State. And now we have illegal immigrants queueing up to leach our money further.

 

[Stirlingsays]

That's a very generous take on Truss.

We haven't had a proper economic change in direction since Thatcher and the outcomes of Thatcher's neoliberalism (or whatever you want to label it) are clear to see; declining living standards, failing public services, exploding wealth inequality - the idea that we just need even less state intervention to fix it is absurd to me.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, my point wasn't really about the policies and whether I agreed with them or not.

It was about the legitimacy to act and where the real financial power lies....and the PM of whatever stripe has that....or should have that over the city. Whereas in truth they don't.

We have a normie population who think that they elect a government and that they have real power over the economy.....and it's only even less than a half truth.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

As do every government ever! That's literally my point.

So the tax burden already high when they got in... how did that come about..?

On one hand you cite Covid & Ukraine, but on the other accuse Labour of inventing the idea that the economy was a mess... that seems contradictory.

Specifically, how have Labour increased the tax burden? And what frugal spending commitments could you highlight?

Covid mostly.
The Tories generally like you to keep your money and spend it. Labour like to spend everyone else's money.

I already told you that they increased employers NI for a start.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Big state costs big money.
One of the biggest problems in this country is the waste of tax payers money by the state. The NHS, The Police, The Civil Service. The Welfare State. And now we have illegal immigrants queueing up to leach our money further.

I don't view those things as a waste of tax payers money.

We have let the markets/privatisation run unchecked in numerous areas, and it's been a disaster in nearly every one of them.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Covid mostly.
The Tories generally like you to keep your money and spend it. Labour like to spend everyone else's money.

Trope.

For a third time; how have Labour increased the tax burden and what frugal spending commitments could you highlight?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, my point wasn't really about the policies and whether I agreed with them or not.

It was about the legitimacy to act and where the real financial power lies....and the PM of whatever stripe has that....or should have that over the city. Whereas in truth they don't.

We have a normie population who think that they elect a government and that they the have real power over the economy.....and it's only even less than a half truth.

Certainly agree with that.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I don't view those things as a waste of tax payers money.

We have let the markets/privatisation run unchecked in numerous areas, and it's been a disaster in nearly every one of them.

They are not a waste of money themselves, other than immigrants. What they waste is.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Trope.

For a third time; how have Labour increased the tax burden and what frugal spending commitments could you highlight?

Would you like to read my posts and not just selectively edit them.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Would you like to read my posts and not just selectively edit them.

I haven't edited anything - you edited your own post after I had already replied.

If you would like to offer more than one-line partial responses, happy to discuss further.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I haven't edited anything - you edited your own post after I had already replied.

If you would like to offer more than one-line partial responses, happy to discuss further.

OK. So once again, they raised employers NI. This has had a negative impact on business, jobs and the cost of goods and services.
Meanwhile, the cost of housing illegals is increasing daily.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, my point wasn't really about the policies and whether I agreed with them or not.

It was about the legitimacy to act and where the real financial power lies....and the PM of whatever stripe has that....or should have that over the city. Whereas in truth they don't.

We have a normie population who think that they elect a government and that they have real power over the economy.....and it's only even less than a half truth.

It's clear that governments react to the economic climate rather than control it. That is the required skill for a Chancellor.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's clear that governments react to the economic climate rather than control it. That is the required skill for a Chancellor.

I like the fact that Truss was willing to take a serious chance at growth......When you look at the reality of the situation without serious cutting or growth we are frankly buggered.

Politically cutting at the required size would result in massive internal upheaval, riots and all the rest of it. Growth requires balls and risk.....and the city aren't having it.

They are going to suck away at the economy's lifeblood and keep it alive for as long as possible....because none of them will be held to account.

Hell, no one gets held to account for anything....Being an elite means you can royally destroy and feck up everything you touch and you get to skip away.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

OK. So once again, they raised employers NI. This has had a negative impact on business, jobs and the cost of goods and services.
Meanwhile, the cost of housing illegals is increasing daily.

Ok so the sum of evidence is a single policy on employers NI.

The previous government raised corporation tax, introduced an oil & gas windfall tax, second homes tax, sugar tax, increase on alcohol and tobacco duty, raised VAT.

Based on that, I find it very hard to conclude that Labour are the party of 'tax and spend' nor that the Tories want you to keep your money any more than Labour do.

 

[Badger11]

Nothing wrong with the economy apart from the 250,000 increase in unemployed, inflation and national debt rising, apart from that all is well. 😀

 

[georgenorman]

Ok so the sum of evidence is a single policy on employers NI.

The previous government raised corporation tax, introduced an oil & gas windfall tax, second homes tax, sugar tax, increase on alcohol and tobacco duty, raised VAT.

Based on that, I find it very hard to conclude that Labour are the party of 'tax and spend' nor that the Tories want you to keep your money any more than Labour do.

All governments are tax and spend - these days it is over-tax and over-spend, that is the problem.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

All governments are tax and spend - these days it is over-tax and over-spend, that is the problem.

Yes, that's the point I'm making.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Ok so the sum of evidence is a single policy on employers NI.

The previous government raised corporation tax, introduced an oil & gas windfall tax, second homes tax, sugar tax, increase on alcohol and tobacco duty, raised VAT.

Based on that, I find it very hard to conclude that Labour are the party of 'tax and spend' nor that the Tories want you to keep your money any more than Labour do.

You are proving my point. Most of that is on goods. You choose to buy them or not. Oil and gas was fair game.
Corporation tax? When was this raised?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You are proving my point. Most of that is on goods. You choose to buy them or not. Oil and gas was fair game.
Corporation tax? When was this raised.

I'm not sure I agree that a list of Tory tax increases is proving your point that Labour are the party of tax increases.