Labour Party politics

steeleye20 said:
Many voters prefer Corbyn to Starmer's repressive regime, and many particularly palestine supporters have nowhere to go.

You could now actually be arrested for having a Palestine flag, or be casually arrested and detained in 97% of cases released without charge.

This is not limited to Gaza.

More people voted Corbyn in 2019 than Starmer in 2024, it is solely due to Britain's barmy voting system that he is in power.

Authoritarian and right wing, hardly what moderate voters or the left wanted.

Not a man or government of the people.

New parties rarely get off the ground, but at least can provide some fresh air.

😎
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Highlighted in italics, and you know this how?

Highlighted in bold simply not true so no surprise you posted it.

So in your post you have both a completely unsubstantiated opinion put as a fact, a competely untru statement that supports your narrative.

Only thing missing from a Steeleye bingo card is some jew hate or rejoicing in dead Israelis
 
HKOwen said:
You must have Orwell quotes as your most used bookmark.

I wonder how many of his books you have actually read
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I have read all of his published books, articles and letters and several biographies of him.
 
HKOwen said:
You must have Orwell quotes as your most used bookmark.

I wonder how many of his books you have actually read
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Butting in.

I have read most of Orwell's books. An interesting man because he was one of the few prominent people on the left to publicly criticise Russia and Stalin. It's easy to forget that back in the 1930's much of the chattering classes were enamoured of Stalin and communism. It's why half of Cambridge ended up spying for them.

He wasn't the only one but it's amazing how intelligent people in the UK overlooked the atrocities in Russia that had been going on since the twenties. They saw Stalin as a bulwark to Hitler so looked the other way.

Orwell started out as a communist but after his experiences in Spain fighting against the fascists he realised just how evil Stalin was and drifted more to a Blair like political position.

He correctly identified the "cult of the personality" that Stalin and most other dictators use and foresaw the surveillance society that we live in today. In 1984 Winston Smith's job is to create fake media stories which is why he is so relevant today. Although I doubt he would be happy being quoted by the right.

He wasn't perfect and like a lot it's easier to point out the fault in a system rather than find solutions.
 
Badger11 said:
Butting in.

I have read most of Orwell's books. An interesting man because he was one of the few prominent people on the left to publicly criticise Russia and Stalin. It's easy to forget that back in the 1930's much of the chattering classes were enamoured of Stalin and communism. It's why half of Cambridge ended up spying for them.

He wasn't the only one but it's amazing how intelligent people in the UK overlooked the atrocities in Russia that had been going on since the twenties. They saw Stalin as a bulwark to Hitler so looked the other way.

Orwell started out as a communist but after his experiences in Spain fighting against the fascists he realised just how evil Stalin was and drifted more to a Blair like political position.

He correctly identified the "cult of the personality" that Stalin and most other dictators use and foresaw the surveillance society that we live in today. In 1984 Winston Smith's job is to create fake media stories which is why he is so relevant today. Although I doubt he would be happy being quoted by the right.

He wasn't perfect and like a lot it's easier to point out the fault in a system rather than find solutions.
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Yes, people here throw the name around without really knowing what they're talking about
 
Badger11 said:
Butting in.

I have read most of Orwell's books. An interesting man because he was one of the few prominent people on the left to publicly criticise Russia and Stalin. It's easy to forget that back in the 1930's much of the chattering classes were enamoured of Stalin and communism. It's why half of Cambridge ended up spying for them.

He wasn't the only one but it's amazing how intelligent people in the UK overlooked the atrocities in Russia that had been going on since the twenties. They saw Stalin as a bulwark to Hitler so looked the other way.

Orwell started out as a communist but after his experiences in Spain fighting against the fascists he realised just how evil Stalin was and drifted more to a Blair like political position.

He correctly identified the "cult of the personality" that Stalin and most other dictators use and foresaw the surveillance society that we live in today. In 1984 Winston Smith's job is to create fake media stories which is why he is so relevant today. Although I doubt he would be happy being quoted by the right.

He wasn't perfect and like a lot it's easier to point out the fault in a system rather than find solutions.
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I agree with a lot of this. I don't think Orwell 'started out as a communist'. He was a member of the Independent Labour Party and very left wing in many ways, he wanted to nationalise practically everything while retaining the monarchy - a typical Orwell contradiction.
He was a libertarian, an egalitarian and a contrarian.
I think if he had lived longer he would have recognised the failure of the state in being able to run more and more of our lives and activities. He certainly would have strongly opposed the corruption of language and education that is now used in pursuit of political ends - he would have taken his own advice "We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men".
 
Starmer has said he is a strong leader (debatable) but he has a bigger problem than that.

The Welfare bill has been a debacle and yet the question people should be asking is not why did he U turn but how do it happen in the first place.

Surely a good leader is someone who brings people along with their ideas. Welfare reform was a keynote part of the manifesto so the bill was hardly a surprise. However Labour senior management seem to have been caught out by the strength of opposition from the backbenchers.

This has nothing to do with "strength" but competency. Blair and his prince of darkness were very good and getting their MPs in order before presenting a bill to parliament so rebellions were few and far between and mainly led by the awkward squad (Corbyn and a handful of others).

It's clear that Starmer just assumed that they would line up like good little drones until they didn't.

This says more about his leadership skills than whether or not he is a strong leader.
 
Labour are a party who spend. They spend on welfare. They spend on creating unnecessary jobs. They spend on the NHS, which is usually wasted. They spend your money.

This time, there was no money and taxes were already high. Starmer got elected by keeping the Corbynites quiet.
Now he is in power and trying to find money, the inevitable u turns and back bench rebellions are coming thick and fast.

It's not like this wasn't predictable. This lot got voted in because they weren't the Tories.
Reform will do well next time because they aren't Tory or Labour, not to mention the country being over run with immigrants.
 
steeleye20 said:
Once in effect, supporting Palestine Action will become a criminal offence, with membership or expressing support for the direct action group punishable by up to 14 years in prison.

The Home Secretary saying that this does not effect peaceful protest, is nonsensical.
support can mean anything you're not going to want to test it, are you.

I didn't vote for them, I suspected stuff like this from Starmer.

😎
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I'm sure for some, the support for Palestine is about the loss of innocent lives, but for many it is about Jew hating, Islam and anti Western sentiment. Then we have the ones who just turn up for every demonstration because they have blue hair, personality disorders and are unemployed.

If you think that you can get away with attacking an air base, then you are nuttier than even I thought.
We are talking about national security.

Those loons crossed a line, and now they are paying for it.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
Labour are a party who spend. They spend on welfare. They spend on creating unnecessary jobs. They spend on the NHS, which is usually wasted. They spend your money.

This time, there was no money and taxes were already high. Starmer got elected by keeping the Corbynites quiet.
Now he is in power and trying to find money, the inevitable u turns and back bench rebellions are coming thick and fast.

It's not like this wasn't predictable. This lot got voted in because they weren't the Tories.
Reform will do well next time because they aren't Tory or Labour, not to mention the country being over run with immigrants.
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Some reasonable points that i actually agree with.

There are many challenges for the UK, whoever is in power.

We have had pretty much zero growth in the last 15 or so years. Govt borrowing is at an all time high and the interest payments are costing c£100bn per year. Many services have been underfunded for years.

Then we have the challenges with defence that will require further funding over the next few years. This money has to come from somewhere.

If you look at where the tax money goes clearly health is very high, but we also have massive backlogs and waiting list.

2 areas where the current spending is increasing and becoming unsustainable is welfare and pensions.
The triple lock is something that probably should be scrapped but it will take a tough govt to do it. The winter fuel payment is a small payment that is not means tested so seemed an obvious one to reduce and look how that went.

Similarly with welfare. The Tories have already said that they wanted £12bn of savings so they will go for this aggressively of they ever get back in. I think Reform will do similar. So all these Labour MPs need to think longer term. Unfortunately these cuts will come and they will be deeper than were currently being proposed.

Reform/Farage seem to be following the US model - the current bill Trump is pushing through ultimately increases debt massively whilst boosting defence spending and tax cuts for the riches whilst cutting health benefits for the lowest 10m. Will he do similar here?
 

Central government should just be able to override this sort of localised nonsense - how are we ever supposed to build anything?

Family homes, less than 50 miles from London, with a train station and direct lines to London every day - if we can't build in places like that, then where..?
 
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CPFCSaturn said:

Central government should just be able to override this sort of localised nonsense - how are we ever supposed to build anything?

Family homes, less than 50 miles from London, with a train station and direct lines to London every day - if we can't build in places like that, then where..?
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If there weren't so many people in this country we wouldn't have a housing crisis. They need to look at the number of empty properties both new and old. Perhaps a tweak to the tax system to encourage people to either rent them or sell.

In my block of 20 flats we have 5 that are 2nd homes. These are all inherited and the new owners have decided to use them as their occasional London pads. They have done nothing wrong but if the tax system penalised them I would guess they would sell.
 
Badger11 said:
If there weren't so many people in this country we wouldn't have a housing crisis. They need to look at the number of empty properties both new and old. Perhaps a tweak to the tax system to encourage people to either rent them or sell.

In my block of 20 flats we have 5 that are 2nd homes. These are all inherited and the new owners have decided to use them as their occasional London pads. They have done nothing wrong but if the tax system penalised them I would guess they would sell.
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I don't disagree on anything you've said, and strongly agree that second home ownership should be taxed to the heavens.

But we also need to build new homes and infrastructure.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
I don't disagree on anything you've said, and strongly agree that second home ownership should be taxed to the heavens.

But we also need to build new homes and infrastructure.
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I know of a Prime site of course the current building will need to be demolished but I reckon you could get 1000 flats on the site. The address is BN1 9BL
 
It's not all doom for Labour, surestart centres are being re-introduced under a new name.

Cancelled by the tories, a hated symbol of labour success as the NHS is.


😎
 
steeleye20 said:
It's not all doom for Labour, surestart centres are being re-introduced under a new name.

Cancelled by the tories, a hated symbol of labour success as the NHS is.


😎
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What the new name - 'Another Waste of Money'?
 
Badger11 said:
I know of a Prime site of course the current building will need to be demolished but I reckon you could get 1000 flats on the site. The address is BN1 9BL
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That was supposed to be the town’s new hospital to replace the one in the town centre with its outdated multiple hospital buildings built on top of each other as add ons to the old old Victorian hospital. I wonder what made the council change its mind?
 
NMPalace said:
Some reasonable points that i actually agree with.

There are many challenges for the UK, whoever is in power.

We have had pretty much zero growth in the last 15 or so years. Govt borrowing is at an all time high and the interest payments are costing c£100bn per year. Many services have been underfunded for years.

Then we have the challenges with defence that will require further funding over the next few years. This money has to come from somewhere.

If you look at where the tax money goes clearly health is very high, but we also have massive backlogs and waiting list.

2 areas where the current spending is increasing and becoming unsustainable is welfare and pensions.
The triple lock is something that probably should be scrapped but it will take a tough govt to do it. The winter fuel payment is a small payment that is not means tested so seemed an obvious one to reduce and look how that went.

Similarly with welfare. The Tories have already said that they wanted £12bn of savings so they will go for this aggressively of they ever get back in. I think Reform will do similar. So all these Labour MPs need to think longer term. Unfortunately these cuts will come and they will be deeper than were currently being proposed.

Reform/Farage seem to be following the US model - the current bill Trump is pushing through ultimately increases debt massively whilst boosting defence spending and tax cuts for the riches whilst cutting health benefits for the lowest 10m. Will he do similar here?
Click to expand...
UK GDP 2010 2.4 tn USD 2024 3.8 tn
 
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