Kamada will be an asset

[CPFCSaturn]

A comparison between Wharton, Hughes, Lerma, Kamada & Devenny based on this season's league games only:

Pass Completion:

Kamada 78.9%
Wharton 77.1%
Hughes 76.6%
Lerma 75.7%
Devenny 70.5%

Progressive Passes per 90:

Wharton 8.26
Kamada 4.89
Hughes 4.26
Lerma 4.03
Devenny 3.42

Tackles + Interceptions per 90:

Hughes 4.15
Kamada 4.14
Wharton 4.05
Lerma 2.99
Devenny 2.89

Progressive Distance Carried per 90 (in yards):

Wharton 68.5
Hughes 57.7
Kamada 57.0
Deveny 56.8
Lerma 44.9

Is he that bad?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

To help some of you get over the line with Kamada wages. He was a player out of contract in Italy. This meant he could negotiate his sale and future wages to another club. We offered him £100k/wk for two years, so his total cost to us is £10million.
That's it.
If you say he was worth £5m to buy which arguably would have been a bargain, then the resulting maths would give him £50k/week wages for two years.
Whichever way you slice it, he is not expensive, and you can't compare his £100k/wk salary with other players who we paid for, Kamada was free.

Correct - and his teammates and their agents will be very aware of the fact he was signed on a free and his wages are inflated as a result.

Fuss about nothing.

 

[NEILLO]

Correct - and his teammates and their agents will be very aware of the fact he was signed on a free and his wages are inflated as a result.

Fuss about nothing.

My point , accepting all of the factors re free transfer etc., is that at £100k a week I don't see he's proving - yet - to be value for that money.

I don't care what players earn, get the best deal they can and good luck to them.

But then they need to prove they are worth it. In my opinion, at the moment, Kamada isn't.

 

[park the bus]

With his experience in major European leagues and at international level one might have expected him to have hit the ground running, notwithstanding his ludicrous salary. It's the same for any job where ones experience should hold one in good stead. I would have thought that he should have settled in by now, but he looks way off Premiership standard. The way I see it, he's not even a starter at a mid-table side like Palace, therefore why is he on a salary that is way above those that are? Barmy.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

My point , accepting all of the factors re free transfer etc., is that at £100k a week I don't see he's proving - yet - to be value for that money.

I don't care what players earn, get the best deal they can and good luck to them.

But then they need to prove they are worth it. In my opinion, at the moment, Kamada isn't.

But a free transfer on £100k a week is very different to a £30m singing on £100k a week - that's the point.

Kamada signed a two year deal on £100k a week; total outlay on the deal = £10.4m spread over 2 years.

That is a very low-cost signing for a club in our position.

 

[NEILLO]

With his experience in major European leagues and at international level one might have expected him to have hit the ground running, notwithstanding his ludicrous salary. It's the same for any job where ones experience should hold one in good stead. I would have thought that he should have settled in by now, but he looks way off Premiership standard. The way I see it, he's not even a starter at a mid-table side like Palace, therefore why is he on a salary that is way above those that are? Barmy.

You've kind of answered your own question !

With his background and playing credentials he was able to command the salary he's on when he signed.

But he's not living up to it.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

With his experience in major European leagues and at international level one might have expected him to have hit the ground running, notwithstanding his ludicrous salary. It's the same for any job where ones experience should hold one in good stead. I would have thought that he should have settled in by now, but he looks way off Premiership standard. The way I see it, he's not even a starter at a mid-table side like Palace, therefore why is he on a salary that is way above those that are? Barmy.

Because we did not pay a transfer fee!

 

[NEILLO]

But a free transfer on £100k a week is very different to a £30m singing on £100k a week - that's the point.

Kamada signed a two year deal on £100k a week; total outlay on the deal = £10.4m spread over 2 years.

That is a very low-cost signing for a club in our position.

I know all that !

I keep saying it and maybe I'm on my own here - he's not justifying his £100k wages ! His level of performance is not in keeping with being the highest earner at the club.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I know all that !

I keep saying it and maybe I'm on my own here - he's not justifying his £100k wages ! His level of performance is not in keeping with being the highest earner at the club.

But surely the question is whether he is justifying the modest outlay of £5m a year..?

Just taking his salary without context feels unfair - no one is arguing he's the best player at the club, he just happened to be a player with pedigree who was available on a free.

 

[dreamwaverider]

I know all that !

I keep saying it and maybe I'm on my own here - he's not justifying his £100k wages ! His level of performance is not in keeping with being the highest earner at the club.

In our manager's eyes, his level of performance is enough to get him a starting place in the first team, especially when Hughes was suspended then ill, Lerma was ill/tired then covered back three and Devenny was presumably not favoured ahead of Kamada.
Glasner will have his reasons and I am comfortable with that.
I would be surprised if he is a starter on Saturday.
Lets see.

 

[grumpymort]

A comparison between Wharton, Hughes, Lerma, Kamada & Devenny based on this season's league games only:




Is he that bad?

Who is the provider of those stats?

Stats can be read many different ways.

Lerma & Hughes for example have played more minutes.

Another one is what position/role was they playing.

Kamada for example 0 goals/assists in league he is more attacking player if you compare him to likes of hughes/lerma yet both those have scored. (sounds simple but it's not)

This is why you can't just look at stats it's a poor method to use and if you do you have to match up each person which would be difficult to do.

You have to try judge it by what you see in each game.

 

[NEILLO]

But surely the question is whether he is justifying the modest outlay of £5m a year..?

Just taking his salary without context feels unfair - no one is arguing he's the best player at the club, he just happened to be a player with pedigree who was available on a free.

Of course overall it's a modest outlay. With all of that outlay going to the player - fair enough.

Is it unfair to just take into account his salary ? Well that's all we have - there's no transfer fee to call into question in terms of whether the player was worth the fee. So that leaves the salary - and I think I've made it clear how I feel about that ...we'll have to agree to disagree on that I guess.

 

[mart.denman]

But surely the question is whether he is justifying the modest outlay of £5m a year..?

Just taking his salary without context feels unfair - no one is arguing he's the best player at the club, he just happened to be a player with pedigree who was available on a free.

My 8 year old Beagle has Pedigree but i wouldn't compete him at Crufts, maybe Village Green dog show for dog with the waggy tail..... Kamada is the same competing in the Premier League.... Village Green football would suit more Player with best back pass & no sense of direction.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

But surely the question is whether he is justifying the modest outlay of £5m a year..?

Just taking his salary without context feels unfair - no one is arguing he's the best player at the club, he just happened to be a player with pedigree who was available on a free.

Not a criticism of Kamada since this is the way football works but Tyrick Mitchell didn't cost anything either, has played 140 games more and is paid £65,000 a week less. Of course most people would be happy with £2 m a year but even so it must grate a bit.

 

[PatrickA]

Speaking of a waste of money how about Holding?

Now he was reputed to have cost us a few million and it's unlikely he took a cut from his high wages at Arsenal to join us.

He's been injured, out of favour and I doubt Sheff U are paying his full wages while on loan, so we may well be subsidising them too.

Looks like a potential future free transfer to get him off our books too, and it wouldn't surprise me if we have to pay a 'loyalty bonus' too before he leaves.
The madness of football economics.

Kamada may be a bargain in comparison!

 

[NEILLO]

In our manager's eyes, his level of performance is enough to get him a starting place in the first team, especially when Hughes was suspended then ill, Lerma was ill/tired then covered back three and Devenny was presumably not favoured ahead of Kamada.
Glasner will have his reasons and I am comfortable with that.
I would be surprised if he is a starter on Saturday.
Lets see.

I'm a big a fan of Glasner as you could wish to meet. And as I posted previously, he has faith in Kamada and for that reason he's giving him more opportunities that arguably his performances haven't justified.

I've yet to be convinced by Kamada, but I trust the manager so if he feels Kamada will prove up to it then I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Who is the provider of those stats?

Stats can be read many different ways.

Lerma & Hughes for example have played more minutes.

Another one is what position/role was they playing.

Kamada for example 0 goals/assists in league he is more attacking player if you compare him to likes of hughes/lerma yet both those have scored. (sounds simple but it's not)

This is why you can't just look at stats it's a poor method to use and if you do you have to match up each person which would be difficult to do.

You have to try judge it by what you see in each game.

Of course stats require context, but they also can provide insight that is missed in real time when emotions are high.

Perfect example being Kamada's pass completion being the best of our midfielders, while most people on here suggesting he can't pass. (I'm not claiming some sort of superiority here... I was also amazed that he comes out top).

The context is that he's made a lower volume of passes than most of the others, due to fewer minutes, and that he makes fewer key passes or chance-creating passes than some of the others.

But it's still relevant, interesting information - rejecting it because it doesn't fit a preconception you have is silly.

Data-led analysis is far more objective than any of our opinions - I agree it needs context and should be used alongside other tools, but it can be very useful.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Not a criticism of Kamada since this is the way football works but Tyrick Mitchell didn't cost anything either, has played 140 games more and is paid £65,000 a week less. Of course most people would be happy with £2 m a year but even so it must grate a bit.

Sure, but I'm not really sure what the alternative is - if Mitchell wants to run down his current deal and go and sign on a free somewhere, he could probably also expect a salary north of £100k a week.

Academy graduates are nearly always the lowest paid, and free transfers nearly always the highest.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Speaking of a waste of money how about Holding?

Now he was reputed to have cost us a few million and it's unlikely he took a cut from his high wages at Arsenal to join us.

He's been injured, out of favour and I doubt Sheff U are paying his full wages while on loan, so we may well be subsidising them too.

Looks like a potential future free transfer to get him off our books too, and it wouldn't surprise me if we have to pay a 'loyalty bonus' too before he leaves.
The madness of football economics.

Kamada may be a bargain in comparison!

Compare him with Eduoard and he virtually came out of a Jamboree bag.

 

[ex hibitionist]

He was very poor to start with, seemed to improve a bit at Forest and Wolves, then reverted to being poor again. Recently he's been between mediocre and quite good, but his poor start has now tainted him, and if he has a 6/10 performance it gets given 1/10 for those who haven't forgiven him for his poor start. It is nonsense to say he is championship level, we got him from Lazio ffs. He struggles to express his ability in the prem, he may continue to do so or he may, like many before, as Willo pointed out come good, and if Glasner reckons he will I'll keep the faith until Glasner loses his. We will be rotating the squad so I expect to see him start tomorrow, then back to Hughsey and Wharton for Saturday.