Israel v Hamas

[Glazier#1]

Peace only happens when Israel wins.

My fear is that this response by Israel, right or wrong, will not secure peace but ensure generations of further conflict.

There are many Palestinians who have had their entire families wiped out. That, in itself will ensure the continued retribution and warfare in one form or another.

I say that not even as a judgement but an inevitability.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

My fear is that this response by Israel, right or wrong, will not secure peace but ensure generations of further conflict.

There are many Palestinians who have had their entire families wiped out. That, in itself will ensure the continued retribution and warfare in one form or another.

I say that not even as a judgement but an inevitability.

So when Palestinians murder Israelis en masse and take many hostages, Israel should show restraint to avoid 'generations of future conflict'.

OK.

Maybe that's why Netanyahu looks like he might have decided that there will be no future generations of Palestinians.
Did that occur to you?

Israel is certainly going nowhere, so maybe the last Hamas attack was the final straw that lead to the realisation that this was never going to end until one side had total victory.
The alternative is decade after decade of attacks and reprisals, with Israel inevitably expanding.

There is no good option. One side driven by hatred and determined never to be the victims again, and the other also driven by hatred, and resentment.

There will never be peace.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Except it's not been indiscriminate or disproportionate as has already been pointed out multiple times. As has the notion that civilians unfortunately die in wars.

How can you be so confident of that without the investigations you seem to place so much faith in?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Ah yes, the ultimate standard of military justice: "some footage, a few incidents, and random eyewitness accounts from people who aren’t the IDF." Brilliant. Case closed. No need for international law, independent investigations, or even basic logic – we’ve got Twitter clips and anonymous testimonies. Why bother with nuance when moral outrage feels so good?

God, this is shamefully dishonest.

I guess all of the western governments now condemning Israel are also just going off a few twitter clips. Or they hate jews, obviously.

Nothing to see.

 

[Glazier#1]

By ‘total victory’ do you mean total extermination?

May I remind you that my observation was written as just that.

I sense you feel it was a moral judgement on my part, Rolfie.

 

[cryrst]

If I was an elite military strategist I would be doing so as a job, wouldn’t I George?

The complexities of urban warfare aside, the indiscriminate way they have approached a lot of it is very heavy handed.

Do you think 50,000 civilians dead and many more maimed and injured fair collateral damage for eradicating Hamas? If so, how many more until you think ‘that’s a bit over the top now’?

Yeah doesn’t pay as well does it 👌

 

[cryrst]

My fear is that this response by Israel, right or wrong, will not secure peace but ensure generations of further conflict.

There are many Palestinians who have had their entire families wiped out. That, in itself will ensure the continued retribution and warfare in one form or another.

I say that not even as a judgement but an inevitability.

So prior to Israel at war with Gaza the Muslims liked the Jews then.
Israel are the enemy for Muslims and always have been so Gaza is the current scape goat. How about the Olympic massacre, the recent shooting and Molotovs in the USA. How about the Paris reporters being killed you know Charlie Hebdo. 6 million Jews died in the war, ironically if the west didn’t defeat hitler the Muslims were next.

 

[Glazier#1]

So prior to Israel at war with Gaza the Muslims liked the Jews then.
Israel are the enemy for Muslims and always have been so Gaza is the current scape goat. How about the Olympic massacre, the recent shooting and Molotovs in the USA. How about the Paris reporters being killed you know Charlie Hebdo. 6 million Jews died in the war, ironically if the west didn’t defeat hitler the Muslims were next.

Again, I sense that you feel I’m sitting in judgement.

I’m not.

It seems to me that until people seek another solution apart from conflict, it will never end.

Even if those in Gaza were totally annihilated, the wars will just carry on and on.

 

[cryrst]

Again, I sense that you feel I’m sitting in judgement.

I’m not.

It seems to me that until people seek another solution apart from conflict, it will never end.

Even if those in Gaza were totally annihilated, the wars will just carry on and on.

Yup Jews will follow and seek Muslims to kill around the globe. Or will they ?

 

[eaglesdare]

Maybe the simplest solution to all the death and destruction really is to turn Gaza into the "Riviera of the Middle East"

 

[Glazier#1]

Yup Jews will follow and seek Muslims to kill around the globe. Or will they ?

What? Don't understand.

 

[Penge Eagle]

How can you be so confident of that without the investigations you seem to place so much faith in?

Already explained why in posts to you on here. 👍

 

[eaglesdare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1929962496808370276

For those Pro Hamas supporters

 

[cryrst]

What? Don't understand.

Even if Gaza was gone or spin it to Israel gives up its country to Muslims the hatred towards them wouldn’t suddenly go away.

 

[HKOwen]

Perhaps you can answer as to whether it would be a proportionate response.

Not likely

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

By ‘total victory’ do you mean total extermination?

May I remind you that my observation was written as just that.

I sense you feel it was a moral judgement on my part, Rolfie.

I'll tell you what I think.

When the US bombed Hiroshima, it was a terrible thing. Innocent people died horribly.
When we firebombed Dresden and other cities, it was also a terrible thing and people died horribly.

What it wasn't was genocide. It was war. We were inflicting mass casualties on an enemy who was trying to do the same to us in an effort to end the war with victory as quickly as possible and with the least amount of casualties on our side.

Israel is destroying Palestine. It is a terrible thing. Innocent people are dying horribly. Despite that, Hamas and its friends take every opportunity to attack Israel and reject all attempts to end the conflict.

It is a war. It cannot be genocide while both sides are attacking each other, and it cannot end until one side surrenders or is obliterated.

History lesson, moral judgements and definitions have no bearing on this reality.

 

[HKOwen]

I'll tell you what I think.

When the US bombed Hiroshima, it was a terrible thing. Innocent people died horribly.
When we firebombed Dresden and other cities, it was also a terrible thing and people died horribly.

What it wasn't was genocide. It was war. We were inflicting mass casualties on an enemy who was trying to do the same to us in an effort to end the war with victory as quickly as possible and with the least amount of casualties on our side.

Israel is destroying Palestine. It is a terrible thing. Innocent people are dying horribly. Despite that, Hamas and its friends take every opportunity to attack Israel and reject all attempts to end the conflict.

It is a war. It cannot be genocide while both sides are attacking each other, and it cannot end until one side surrenders or is obliterated.

History lesson, moral judgements and definitions have no bearing on this reality.

This is reality

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I'll tell you what I think.

When the US bombed Hiroshima, it was a terrible thing. Innocent people died horribly.
When we firebombed Dresden and other cities, it was also a terrible thing and people died horribly.

What it wasn't was genocide. It was war. We were inflicting mass casualties on an enemy who was trying to do the same to us in an effort to end the war with victory as quickly as possible and with the least amount of casualties on our side.

Israel is destroying Palestine. It is a terrible thing. Innocent people are dying horribly. Despite that, Hamas and its friends take every opportunity to attack Israel and reject all attempts to end the conflict.

It is a war. It cannot be genocide while both sides are attacking each other, and it cannot end until one side surrenders or is obliterated.

History lesson, moral judgements and definitions have no bearing on this reality.

Hiroshima and Dresden were indeed terrible things during wars. They though were calculated acts intended ultimately to stop wars against powerful enemies and ultimately to lower the loss of life.

Not so the actions of the IDF in Gaza. The impact on loss of life will be to increase it, both directly and in the future by baking in anger and the desire for retribution across the Islamic world. Wiping out and/or relocating the Palestinians just kicks the problem elsewhere. It doesn’t solve it.

 

[HKOwen]

Not all Palestinians are Hamas, to conflate then shows a base ignorance of the situation in Gaza, the West Bank, other Palestinian and Arab enclaves within Israel , and the State of Israel.

The State of Israel and The Palestinian Authority have mutually recognised the other's right to exist since the Oslo Accords.

 

[DanH]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1929962496808370276

For those Pro Hamas supporters

Oh look. The White House talking utter bollocks again. Is there any gigantic whopper you don't swallow whole?

"The BBC has rejected incorrect White House criticism of its Gaza coverage, describing a claim it had taken down a story as "completely wrong".

At Tuesday's White House briefing, President Trump's press secretary Karoline Leavitt accused the BBC of taking "the word of Hamas" when reporting on the number of people killed in a shooting near an aid distribution site on Sunday.

She also claimed, wrongly, that the BBC had retracted a story.

"The claim the BBC took down a story after reviewing footage is completely wrong. We did not remove any story and we stand by our journalism," the BBC said in a statement.

Karoline Leavitt criticised the BBC for changing the number of casualties in the story's headline. The corporation said its coverage was updated with new figures throughout the day, which is "totally normal practice on any fast-moving news story".

The numbers were "always clearly attributed, from the first figure of 15 from medics, through the 31 killed from the Hamas-run health ministry to the final Red Cross statement of 'at least 21' at their field hospital," the statement said."