Israel v Hamas

[Forest Hillbilly]

Doesn't make a terrible situation any better but, nearly 50% of Gaza voted for Hamas in 2006, nothing since has indicated that level of support has changed one way or another.

If Hamas return the hostages and surrender en masse the Israelis would have no reason to wage war, problem is Hamas are prepared to fight to the last civilian. Hamas and their supporters are all looking for the destruction of Israel and it's Jewish and Druze inhabitants, which be a genocide?????

There is no end of this in sight

Broadly similar voting for Tony Bliar's Government who proceeded to wage an illegal war. Should British civilians bear the brunt of a response by Iraqi military action ?

 

[HKOwen]

And then the birds sang as the sun set in the distance while the brave heroes could rest at last, and they all lived happily ever after.

The end.

A massacre implies defenceless which Hamas are not, extermination or eradication better.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

And people being injured by IDF gunfire as they seek Humanitarian Aid.
Just farcical
"The UN Human Rights Office has said it believes 47 people were injured in Gaza on Tuesday when crowds overwhelmed an aid distribution centre run by a controversial new group backed by the US and Israel.
A senior official said the UN was still gathering information but that most of the injuries were due to gunshots and that "it was shooting from the IDF [Israel Defense Forces]".
Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry said one person was killed and 48 others were wounded.

The IDF said it was checking the reports. A spokesman said troops fired "warning shots" into the air in the area outside the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation's site in the southern city of Rafah but that they did not fire towards people." (BBC website)

 

[HKOwen]

And people being injured by IDF gunfire as they seek Humanitarian Aid.
Just farcical
"The UN Human Rights Office has said it believes 47 people were injured in Gaza on Tuesday when crowds overwhelmed an aid distribution centre run by a controversial new group backed by the US and Israel.
A senior official said the UN was still gathering information but that most of the injuries were due to gunshots and that "it was shooting from the IDF [Israel Defense Forces]".
Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry said one person was killed and 48 others were wounded.

The IDF said it was checking the reports. A spokesman said troops fired "warning shots" into the air in the area outside the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation's site in the southern city of Rafah but that they did not fire towards people." (BBC website)

Whatever happened you can't believe a word from the Hamas Health ministry.

What is this new group? never heard of this before, if backed by USA and Israel quite possible Hamas did the shooting

 

[eaglesdare]

Bad news for the Hamas supporting liberals.

Hamas's Gaza chief Mohammed Sinwar has been 'eliminated', says Netanyahu

Hamas's Gaza chief Mohammed Sinwar has been "eliminated", Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said.

news.sky.com

 

[DanH]

Bad news for the Hamas supporting liberals.

Hamas's Gaza chief Mohammed Sinwar has been 'eliminated', says Netanyahu

Hamas's Gaza chief Mohammed Sinwar has been "eliminated", Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said.

news.sky.com

You keep pretending anyone questioning the Israeli government is a Hamas supporter if it’s the only way of trying to give yourself the moral high ground.

It’s pathetic. Again.

No one is going to shed any tears over the Hamas leader being killed.

 

[Penge Eagle]

You keep pretending anyone questioning the Israeli government is a Hamas supporter if it’s the only way of trying to give yourself the moral high ground.

It’s pathetic. Again.

No one is going to shed any tears over the Hamas leader being killed.

What is it you are questioning about the government?

You can also be critical of the Israeli government and want them to win this war. Except you don't!

 

[DanH]

What is it you are questioning about the government?

You can also be critical of the Israeli government and want them to win this war. Except you don't!

I’d be quite happy for them to eradicate Hamas. It’s plainly clear that their motivations and actions to date have gone far, far beyond just those aims.

You can keep turning a blind eye to what the rest of the world is seeing if you wish. The rest of us find it unconscionable.

 

[Penge Eagle]

I’d be quite happy for them to eradicate Hamas. It’s plainly clear that their motivations and actions to date have gone far, far beyond just those aims.

You can keep turning a blind eye to what the rest of the world is seeing if you wish. The rest of us find it unconscionable.

Vague, sweeping accusations without evidence or balanced context is not a rational argument. It's more like scapegoating.

Calling anyone who doesn't share your outrage as blind shuts down honest discussion. You're assuming moral superiority without understanding the complexity of the war or the actions of Hamas, who uses human shields, deliberately targets civilians and doesn't want peace.

You should be more or at least equally(!) outraged by Hamas launching thousands of rockets at Israeli cities, using aid to build terror tunnels, putting military targets in schools and hospitals. Yet when the outrage is only ever directed at one government (not Hamas or even Saudi Arabia for their war), it raises the question is it about human rights or something more?

 

[DanH]

Vague, sweeping accusations without evidence or balanced context is not a rational argument. It's more like scapegoating.

Calling anyone who doesn't share your outrage as blind shuts down honest discussion. You're assuming moral superiority without understanding the complexity of the war or the actions of Hamas, who uses human shields, deliberately targets civilians and doesn't want peace.

You should be more or at least equally(!) outraged by Hamas launching thousands of rockets at Israeli cities, using aid to build terror tunnels, putting military targets in schools and hospitals. Yet when the outrage is only ever directed at one government (not Hamas or even Saudi Arabia for their war), it raises the question is it about human rights or something more?

But there is outrage to that too! Hamas are worse than the Israeli government and no one wants them to win this war.

What people like us are making noise about is what we are seeing all over the news, over social media and accounts from people there or doctors/journalists that have been on the ground.

This has gone far beyond eradicating Hamas and is quite clearly an attempt to remove or displace an entire population.

It has gone beyond politics. It is a humanitarian issue.

 

[cryrst]

And then the birds sang as the sun set in the distance while the brave heroes could rest at last, and they all lived happily ever after.

The end.

Exactly. Some of those out there need to take one for the team. If the uk were invaded I would be on the beach. You wouldn’t ! The fact is if death is coming through ‘assumed’ starvation or being bombed there is nothing to lose. This tells me they want Hamas doing what they’re doing. Absolutely brain washed !

 

[Penge Eagle]

But there is outrage to that too! Hamas are worse than the Israeli government and no one wants them to win this war.

What people like us are making noise about is what we are seeing all over the news, over social media and accounts from people there or doctors/journalists that have been on the ground.

This has gone far beyond eradicating Hamas and is quite clearly an attempt to remove or displace an entire population.

It has gone beyond politics. It is a humanitarian issue.

Forgive me if I missed them, but I have not read any posts of yours that criticise Hamas for breaking international law. Israel has gone above and beyond to avoid breaking international law. The news won't tell you this but won't hesitate in broadcasting Hamas propaganda.

Claiming Israel is displacing an entire population has no legal or factual evidence – this is a political narrative.

You've not said that part of the blame for the humanitarian crisis lies with Hamas due to looting, government failures and outright telling Palestinians not to take the aid.

The humanitarian issue is a tragic consequence of a bloody war in a small area of land with a heavily-embedded bunch of militants.

 

[DanH]

Forgive me if I missed them, but I have not read any posts of yours that criticise Hamas for breaking international law. Israel has gone above and beyond to avoid breaking international law. The news won't tell you this but won't hesitate in broadcasting Hamas propaganda.

Claiming Israel is displacing an entire population has no legal or factual evidence – this is a political narrative.

You've not said that part of the blame for the humanitarian crisis lies with Hamas due to looting, government failures and outright telling Palestinians not to take the aid.

The humanitarian issue is a tragic consequence of a bloody war in a small area of land with a heavily-embedded bunch of militants.

I have tried to stay out of this for ages because it’s an impossible situation that no one fully understands. And of course I criticise Hamas for breaking international law - they’re an awful terrorist organisation that should be wiped out.

But you cannot surely still be of the opinion that the response is in any way proportional. You have international courts pulling Israel up on what they are doing now. Experts on genocide saying this has all the hallmarks of one. Doctors describing what is happening on the ground.

Hamas are hugely, hugely to blame. But you cannot surely be comfortable with what is still happening over there. So many innocent people have died, or are being starved.

Why do you think there’s a reason why there’s little factual, concrete reporting? The IDF either don’t let anyone in to report properly, or ‘accidentally’ take out the journalists there trying to.

I am quite confident that if you think you’re on the right side of history with this, you are very wrong.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

By your own logic on Netanyahu and Israel... If the USA was at war with Russia, you would not back them because Trump (who you dislike) is president. This is how ridiculous your argument is.

It’s your description of the logic which is ridiculous!

If the USA was at war with Russia it would in no way resemble what’s happening between Israel and Hamas. Both are nuclear powers for a start.

If the USA was at war, with say Cuba because of terrorism, and started to use starvation and ethnic cleansing against innocent civilians as war tactics in order to take over the territory, then their government would deserve international condemnation. Whoever was President.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Ah the military expert in Middle East conflict! 😂 Would love to hear what you know that Israel doesn't. It's just so easy to kill terrorists who wear civilian clothes and hide in mosques, isn't it?

Of course it isn’t but they have the most sophisticated modern surveillance systems known to man available to them. Even without them most of us would be able to recognise that a small child, or a nursing mother, aren’t terrorists.

It isn’t easy, but it must be possible to do things much better than they are. You don’t need to be an expert to see that.

 

[cryrst]

I have tried to stay out of this for ages because it’s an impossible situation that no one fully understands. And of course I criticise Hamas for breaking international law - they’re an awful terrorist organisation that should be wiped out.

But you cannot surely still be of the opinion that the response is in any way proportional. You have international courts pulling Israel up on what they are doing now. Experts on genocide saying this has all the hallmarks of one. Doctors describing what is happening on the ground.

Hamas are hugely, hugely to blame. But you cannot surely be comfortable with what is still happening over there. So many innocent people have died, or are being starved.

Why do you think there’s a reason why there’s little factual, concrete reporting? The IDF either don’t let anyone in to report properly, or ‘accidentally’ take out the journalists there trying to.

I am quite confident that if you think you’re on the right side of history with this, you are very wrong.

Proportional is the key word. How far would you go to protect your family ?

 

[DanH]

Proportional is the key word. How far would you go to protect your family ?

Probably not bombing and starving an entire region mate. How about you?

 

[cryrst]

Probably not bombing and starving an entire region mate. How about you?

What for your wife and kids ? Even if you knew that those people would starve and bomb your region for theirs !
That really is the point danh !

 

[DanH]

What for your wife and kids ? Even if you knew that those people would starve and bomb your region for theirs !
That really is the point danh !

I’m not sure you’ve ever made a coherent point on here.

 

[cryrst]

I’m not sure you’ve ever made a coherent point on here.

No the problem danh is that you dissect everything then deflect as in your reply.
If you actually read things as they are written it would all become clearer !