Israel v Hamas

[HKOwen]

You don't just get to make up what people believe - I have not seen one post on here expressing anything that could be described as wanting Hamas 'to win'.

So you don't want Hamas to " win ", that's good.

 

[eaglesdare]

It doesn't clear anything up at all.

'Oh, don't worry about that ex-politician, he's just a bit extreme'

'Oh don't worry about the Defence Minister overtly telling you they're going to commit war crimes, that's not the OFFICIAL policy'

'Oh don't worry that 53% of the population oppose humanitarian aid, they're just frustrated.'



These pages will certainly make for interesting reading in a year or two - I wonder if doing mental gymnastics to justify and support a genocide will age well.

labeling Israels actions as genocide misrepresents the situation. Genocide implies intent to destroy a group which is not Israels policy. The IDF targets Hamas military infrastructure. While Hamas explicitly calls for Israels destruction.

Feiglin’s extreme views as a former politician with no current role do not shape policy.

At the end of the day war crimes are serious accusations requiring evidence and not based on assumptions. Israels actions while tragic in civilian toll due to Hamas tactics which I have already spoken about are defensive and not at all genocidal.

I trust that this clears things up for you now. 👍🏻

 

[CPFCSaturn]

labeling Israels actions as genocide misrepresents the situation. Genocide implies intent to destroy a group which is not Israels policy. The IDF targets Hamas military infrastructure. While Hamas explicitly calls for Israels destruction.

Feiglin’s extreme views as a former politician with no current role do not shape policy.

At the end of the day war crimes are serious accusations requiring evidence and not based on assumptions. Israels actions while tragic in civilian toll due to Hamas tactics which I have already spoken about are defensive and not at all genocidal.

I trust that this clears things up for you now. 👍🏻

As I said, time will tell - I can be confident I've never spent my time endorsing a genocide.

I don't think you have the intelligence to clear anything up for me, and I'd appreciate if you stop being so patronising 👍

 

[eaglesdare]

As I said, time will tell - I can be confident I've never spent my time endorsing a genocide.

I don't think you have the intelligence to clear anything up for me, and I'd appreciate if you stop being so patronising 👍

My intent is not to patronise rather it is to focus on facts.

Israels actions target Hamas and not civilians in response to the October 7th attacks. Hamas actively calls for Israels destruction. Israel seeks security not genocide.

I don't think you have you have specific evidence of genocide just assumptions.

 

[Penge Eagle]

They have to convince themselves that everyone critical of what the Israeli government is doing is either a Hamas supporter or a raging anti-Semite to justify to themselves that their own position is the morally correct one and that Israel can continue having free reign to achieve what they have set out to do.

It's some crazy mental gymnastics.

You have misunderstood the point. Some people are critical of every single Israeli government, no matter what political party is in charge. You saying this is not a thing? Many people don't think the state should even exist - including some on here! And why should British Jews feel intimidated in this country over the actions of the Israeli govt?

It makes me laugh armchair generals such as yourself who think they would know how to respond to the October 7 terror attack. You would have done it so much differently, with better results!

Israel is a democracy - the only (real) democracy in the Middle East - can and should have free reign to do what it likes as a sovereign nation. It's up to its population to decide whether do vote out the current government - not foreigners who hate the country/leader/people.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

My intent is not to patronise rather it is to focus on facts.

Israels actions target Hamas and not civilians in response to the October 7th attacks. Hamas actively calls for Israels destruction. Israel seeks security not genocide.

I don't think you have you have specific evidence of genocide just assumptions.

I think writing 'hope that clears it up for you' with a thumbs up is incredibly patronising - if I'm misinterpreting it, I apologise, but that's certainly how it comes across.

Just repeating things doesn't make them true or make them facts - I do not at all agree that Israel's actions target Hamas. I do not at all agree that Israel don't just as actively call for Palestine's destruction. I don't at all agree that this is exclusively to do with Israeli security.

I have provided ample evidence. I would go as far to say that in 5 years, I think it will seem ludicrous that there was ever even a debate as to whether this is genocide.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You have misunderstood the point. Some people are critical of every single Israeli government, no matter what political party is in charge. You saying this is not a thing? Many people don't think the state should even exist - including some on here! And why should British Jews feel intimidated in this country over the actions of the Israeli govt?

It makes me laugh armchair generals such as yourself who think they would know how to respond to the October 7 terror attack. You would have done it so much differently, with better results!

Israel is a democracy - the only (real) democracy in the Middle East - can and should have free reign to do what it likes as a sovereign nation. It's up to its population to decide whether do vote out the current government - not foreigners who hate the country/leader/people.

Within international law of course...

 

[Penge Eagle]

Within international law of course...

And the different interpretations of it.

 

[HKOwen]

I think writing 'hope that clears it up for you' with a thumbs up is incredibly patronising - if I'm misinterpreting it, I apologise, but that's certainly how it comes across.

Just repeating things doesn't make them true or make them facts - I do not at all agree that Israel's actions target Hamas. I do not at all agree that Israel don't just as actively call for Palestine's destruction. I don't at all agree that this is exclusively to do with Israeli security.

I have provided ample evidence. I would go as far to say that in 5 years, I think it will seem ludicrous that there was ever even a debate as to whether this is genocide.

But you don't want Hamas to " win", which is a good thing.

 

[eaglesdare]

I think writing 'hope that clears it up for you' with a thumbs up is incredibly patronising - if I'm misinterpreting it, I apologise, but that's certainly how it comes across.

Just repeating things doesn't make them true or make them facts - I do not at all agree that Israel's actions target Hamas. I do not at all agree that Israel don't just as actively call for Palestine's destruction. I don't at all agree that this is exclusively to do with Israeli security.

I have provided ample evidence. I would go as far to say that in 5 years, I think it will seem ludicrous that there was ever even a debate as to whether this is genocide.

My comment was meant to signal openness not condescending.

The genocide label doesn’t hold up without clear evidence of intent to destroy Palestinians as a group. Israels operations target Hamas military infrastructure. It's a shame that Hamas hide behind ordinary citizens and use them as shields in hospitals and schools.

The so called evidence you have provided reflect individual or situational rhetoric and not policy. If you have specific evidence of genocide like official directives then please feel free to share with the rest of us.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

My comment was meant to signal openness not condescending.

The genocide label doesn’t hold up without clear evidence of intent to destroy Palestinians as a group. Israels operations target Hamas military infrastructure. It's a shame that Hamas hide behind ordinary citizens and use them as shields in hospitals and schools.

The so called evidence you have provided reflect individual or situational rhetoric and not policy. If you have specific evidence of genocide like official directives then please feel free to share with the rest of us.

That just happens to be nearly every building in Gaza.

And obviously you have all of that evidence for South Africa where you were happy to conclude a genocide is taking place immediately upon Trump saying so.

 

[DanH]

That just happens to be nearly every building in Gaza.

And obviously you have all of that evidence for South Africa where you were happy to conclude a genocide is taking place immediately upon Trump saying so.

They really have totally belittled their position on this with their comments on that, haven't they?

 

[eaglesdare]

That just happens to be nearly every building in Gaza.

And obviously you have all of that evidence for South Africa where you were happy to conclude a genocide is taking place immediately upon Trump saying so.

Israel does not target “every building” in Gaza. Only Hamas infrastructures.

This topic is about Israel vs Hamas. We can start a new thread on the genocide of white farmers in South Africa to discuss if you wish.

I would still like to see the evidence of genocide in Gaza.

 

[HKOwen]

That just happens to be nearly every building in Gaza.

And obviously you have all of that evidence for South Africa where you were happy to conclude a genocide is taking place immediately upon Trump saying so.

If Hamas return the hostages and surrender en masse the Israelis would have no reason to wage war, problem is Hamas are prepared to fight to the last civilian.

Hamas and their supporters are all looking for the destruction of Israel and it's Jewish and Druze inhabitants, which be a genocide?????

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Israel does not target “every building” in Gaza. Only Hamas infrastructures.

This topic is about Israel vs Hamas. We can start a new thread on the genocide of white farmers in South Africa to discuss if you wish.

I would still like to see the evidence of genocide in Gaza.

They've destroyed over 90% of residential buildings in Gaza. All Hamas infrastructures of course.

That's some swerve 👍

 

[CPFCSaturn]

They really have totally belittled their position on this with their comments on that, haven't they?

What's the little saying that's popular on here..?

If they didn't have double standards...

 

[HKOwen]

If Hamas return the hostages and surrender en masse the Israelis would have no reason to wage war, problem is Hamas are prepared to fight to the last civilian.

Hamas and their supporters are all looking for the destruction of Israel and it's Jewish and Druze inhabitants, which be a genocide?????

So we're all agreed on that and , no one here wants Hamas to " win", so that's good

 

[eaglesdare]

They've destroyed over 90% of residential buildings in Gaza. All Hamas infrastructures of course.

That's some swerve 👍

Is the 90% figure verified evidence? Can you show us this?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Is the 90% figure verified evidence? Can you show us this?

It's a UN figure.

I'm not sure what you mean by verified, but the Israeli's wont let journalists in, which is a strange decision for a military just acting in self-defence, but there you go. People can make their own minds up as to why Israel might not want the world's media in Gaza.

Devastation: aerial views of Gaza after ceasefire – in pictures

Months of Israeli bombardment have turned buildings into piles of rubble and ash

www.theguardian.com

 

[eaglesdare]

It's a UN figure.

I'm not sure what you mean by verified, but the Israeli's wont let journalists in, which is a strange decision for a military just acting in self-defence, but there you go. People can make their own minds up as to why Israel might not want the world's media in Gaza.

Devastation: aerial views of Gaza after ceasefire – in pictures

Months of Israeli bombardment have turned buildings into piles of rubble and ash

www.theguardian.com

The UN’s 90% figure on Gaza’s residential buildings is unverified by independent sources due to restricted access as you have stated. So we can't verify this.

If it were true then context must given. Hamas’s tactic of embedding military assets in civilian areas complicates strikes and causes damage.

Maybe we can ask Hamas politely to move their base of operations into the open. Or better yet surrender and give up the rest of the hostages. That way there would be no excuse for Israel to continue.