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Israel v Hamas

cryrst said:
You’re not a lefty I thought you claimed but jumped straight in. Oh how do you know it’s not happening. Are you in SA or have friends over there informing you it’s all ok and utopia exists in Cape Town !
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What on earth does politics have to do with with something factual?

I’m not there but plenty of objective independent reporters are. If there was even the aroma of a genocide going on it would be known. SA is not a closed society. So far as I know no one in the country itself suggests there is anything like that happening. It’s only coming from the bs that’s being fed into Trump’s brain.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Your excuse that Israel is held to higher standards is because they are a Western democracy...

On October 8, 2023, just one day after Hamas' attack on Israel, hundreds of pro-Palestinian demonstrators rallied in Times Square, waving Palestinian flags, chanting "Resistance is justified", "Globalize the Intifada", "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free", "By any means necessary", "Glory to our martyrs" etc.

The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) campaign targets Israel specifically and not others such as China or Russia.

The UN Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions against Israel than any other country.

The media amplifies the Gaza conflict more than any others.

Antisemitism and anti-Zionism doesn't exist, does it?

Israel is hated when there are no wars going on.
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It’s not an excuse. It’s a reason.

Diversions onto the behaviour of Hamas is obvious whataboutery. There are no excuses for that, but neither is there for Israel’s response. Neither side deserve any support but the innocent victims of both deserve compassion.

For sure the current Israeli government is criticised even when there are no wars. Correctly in my opinion. I think their attitude stinks. Israel and Jews though are not hated. It’s solely the behaviour of the government which is being criticised.
 
The title of this thread is "Israel v Hamas" which is the nub of the matter. Who do you want to win? A pro-Western democracy or elected anti-Western, anti-Jew, anti-Christian terrorists. Hmm, lets think ...
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
What on earth does politics have to do with with something factual?

I’m not there but plenty of objective independent reporters are. If there was even the aroma of a genocide going on it would be known. SA is not a closed society. So far as I know no one in the country itself suggests there is anything like that happening. It’s only coming from the bs that’s being fed into Trump’s brain.
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The race of the victims is immaterial. There are still 500 murders a week in South Africa.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It’s not an excuse. It’s a reason.

Diversions onto the behaviour of Hamas is obvious whataboutery. There are no excuses for that, but neither is there for Israel’s response. Neither side deserve any support but the innocent victims of both deserve compassion.

For sure the current Israeli government is criticised even when there are no wars. Correctly in my opinion. I think their attitude stinks. Israel and Jews though are not hated. It’s solely the behaviour of the government which is being criticised.
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What an ignorant statement. If it was only about the Israeli government, Jews around the world wouldn't be attacked when things get heated in the Middle East. It's not just political criticism – it's antisemitism hiding behind it.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
The race of the victims is immaterial. There are still 500 murders a week in South Africa.
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Indeed, in SA black lives don't matter......to other alive Blacks. The point is the black on black murders are not racially motivated and the Govt does not turn a blind eye, as it does not really mind when non blacks are murdered and their assets seized.

I previously owned a property in Sandton in the days when Nelson was in charge, even then, no one in Joburg went to an ATM alone, you had an armed companion.
 
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US Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem says "the US has given Iran a deadline of days, not weeks, or months," while answering a question from Israeli journalist Barak Battash.

Noem is currently in Israel meeting Gideon Sa'ar, Israeli Foreign Minister.

The US is all about deadlines these days.

Sodding wars all over the shop.
 
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georgenorman said:
The title of this thread is "Israel v Hamas" which is the nub of the matter. Who do you want to win? A pro-Western democracy or elected anti-Western, anti-Jew, anti-Christian terrorists. Hmm, lets think ...
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I don’t want anyone to “win”! I want there to be peace and reconciliation so that ordinary people can live their lives safely. I don’t want ridiculous religious beliefs from anyone dictating their actions. I want respect and compassion dictating action.

I fully accept that we are not going to get what I want anytime soon but nevertheless that ought to be the destination we are aiming at. Every journey starting with a small step.

Neutering Hamas and establishing an alternative authority with a mandate for peace in the areas occupied by the Palestinians is a perfectly reasonable objective. Ethnic cleansing because of Zionist ambitions is not.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
I don’t want anyone to “win”! I want there to be peace and reconciliation so that ordinary people can live their lives safely. I don’t want ridiculous religious beliefs from anyone dictating their actions. I want respect and compassion dictating action.

I fully accept that we are not going to get what I want anytime soon but nevertheless that ought to be the destination we are aiming at. Every journey starting with a small step.

Neutering Hamas and establishing an alternative authority with a mandate for peace in the areas occupied by the Palestinians is a perfectly reasonable objective. Ethnic cleansing because of Zionist ambitions is not.
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Buy them a coke and sing them a couple of verses of Kumbala.
 
Penge Eagle said:
What an ignorant statement. If it was only about the Israeli government, Jews around the world wouldn't be attacked when things get heated in the Middle East. It's not just political criticism – it's antisemitism hiding behind it.
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No.

You see anti semitism where only disgust at the behaviour of Israel exists.

If anyone, Jew or Gentile, defends that behaviour then they will also get criticised.

Anyone who criticises it, Jews included won’t. Take a look at these:-


 
Wisbech Eagle said:
No.

You see anti semitism where only disgust at the behaviour of Israel exists.

If anyone, Jew or Gentile, defends that behaviour then they will also get criticised.

Anyone who criticises it, Jews included won’t. Take a look at these:-


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I'm sorry but using videos of left-wing and anti-Israel Channel 4 News is unreliable.

Why are synagogues attacked across the world when things kick off in Gaza?
 
eaglesdare said:
Israel’s actions in Gaza are a direct response to the unprecedented October 7th Hamas attack which killed over 1000 Israelis and took more than 250 hostages many still held captive.
This is part of a long conflict with Hamas who have repeatedly targeted Israeli civilians. Israel have a right to self defence. No other country would tolerate such a threat.

Those 50,000 civilian deaths you quoted are from Hamas controlled media sources.
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So nothing Israel has done to Palestine in the decades previous justifies October 7th, but everything Israel has done to Palestine since is justified by October 7th... do you not see that as contradictory?

If we accept your definition that this is Israel acting in self-defence, do Palestine not also have that same right?
 
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