Israel v Hamas

[CPFCSaturn]

They were protesting before Israel started its campaign. They were protesting on the day of the October massacre. They support terrorists.

That might be why people are a little outraged.

You support them.

Yes, this issue predates October 7th 2023 by quite a few decades.

Who is 'they'?

'Nothing that's happened before justifies October 7th, but everything that's happened since is justified by October 7th.'

 

[Penge Eagle]

It was a bad deal because it wasn't supported at the time and hasn’t been resurrected since, if no one is supporting a plan I can't see any merit in revisiting it 25 years later.

I'm wasting my time. Why don't you spend some time reading about the topic? Your posts are so clueless it's embarrassing.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yes, this issue predates October 7th 2023 by quite a few decades.

Who is 'they'?

Now you are being disingenuous.

You were wondering why there was outrage about pro Palestinian protests. I gave you the answer.

You have no sensible response, so now you indulge in diversion.

How can you justify protest and a celebration of the brutal murder of 1200 people, including the torture of women and children, on the day it happened and expect sympathy?

You need to wake up.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Now you are being disingenuous.

You were wondering why there was outrage about pro Palestinian protests. I gave you the answer.

You have no sensible response, so now you indulge in diversion.

How can you justify protest and a celebration of the brutal murder of 1200 people, including the torture of women and children, on the day it happened and expect sympathy?

You need to wake up.

You need to stop putting words in my mouth - it's pretty much a 100% hit rate at this point.

I didn't wonder why there was outrage about protests - I speculated as to why one would be more outraged at that than the ongoing killing of civilians - very different points.

How can one express such outrage at the murder of 1200 people, but complete indifference to the murder of tens of thousands?

You need to wake up.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You need to stop putting words in my mouth - it's pretty much a 100% hit rate at this point.

I didn't wonder why there was outrage about protests - I speculated as to why one would be more outraged at that than the ongoing killing of civilians - very different points.

How can one express such outrage at the murder of 1200 people, but complete indifference to the murder of tens of thousands?

You need to wake up.

No they aren't.

The outrage is about the nature of the protesters. The kind who cut down ribbons and celebrate mass murder and the torture of children.

I haven't seen any Jews out celebrating the killing of Palestinians every single week.

 

[chris123]

I'm wasting my time. Why don't you spend some time reading about the topic? Your posts are so clueless it's embarrassing.

Maybe I'm a bit older than you, but it's how I remember it, particularly Rabins assassination.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

No they aren't.

The outrage is about the nature of the protesters. The kind who cut down ribbons and celebrate mass murder and the torture of children.

I haven't seen any Jews out celebrating the killing of Palestinians every single week.

They absolutely and evidently are.

I understand the outrage at the protests - you don't need to keep repeating that bit. I don't understand the lack of comparable outrage at the genocide. That's the point.

There are plenty of Israelis out celebrating the killing of Palestinians - you should have a look at some of the public opinion surveys that come out of Israel.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They absolutely and evidently are.

I understand the outrage at the protests - you don't need to keep repeating that bit. I don't understand the lack of comparable outrage at the genocide. That's the point.

There are plenty of Israelis out celebrating the killing of Palestinians - you should have a look at some of the public opinion surveys that come out of Israel.

It isn't genocide.

Whether you like it or not, the October massacre would look like a very good reason to remove the Hamas threat permanently if you were an Israeli.

Civilian deaths are inevitable when Hamas purposefully hides behind them. They do it to make people like you side with them.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

This trial is perfect timing. The migrant made a video, but with you as the defence barrister he'd get off because all you have to do is say to the judge "well we don't know it's him as it could be AI, and it was Farage who brought it up and he hates migrants". Case dismissed 🤣

Asylum seeker charged with threatening to kill Farage said 'he's going to shoot me' in TikTok video, Reform leader tells court

Fayaz Khan, 26, is charged with making a threat to kill the Reform UK leader between 12 and 15 October last year in a social media post.

news.sky.com

If any defence barrister was able to convince a jury of that without cast iron evidence that it really was produced by AI and used maliciously then he would become world famous or the prosecution barrister was useless. No Judge would admit such a claim without evidence anyway.

So it’s an unfounded and rather silly idea.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It isn't genocide.

Whether you like it or not, the October massacre would look like a very good reason to remove the Hamas threat permanently if you were an Israeli.

Civilian deaths are inevitable when Hamas purposefully hides behind them. They do it to make people like you side with them.

Has never been disputed.

What is disputed is that there is no other option other than to play Hamas’s game.

Why is the Israeli government trying to finish everything quickly, with the heavy loss of civilian life and complete devastation? Why not take the slower, more clinical pathway? Which could take years but would ultimately produce the result without causing so much harm.

The answer is Netanyahu and elections due next year. Which he will lose for sure if the country is still at war, and probably will anyway. Lose the election and he either flees to the USA or goes to jail.

 

[ASCPFC]

They absolutely and evidently are.

I understand the outrage at the protests - you don't need to keep repeating that bit. I don't understand the lack of comparable outrage at the genocide. That's the point.

There are plenty of Israelis out celebrating the killing of Palestinians - you should have a look at some of the public opinion surveys that come out of Israel.

There's enough outrage all over the place against the Israelis. There is no need to add to it. It might be much better to try to temper it somewhat now, frankly.
I don't think anybody, more or less, agrees with killing loads of civilians but, some people can understand why it happens. Others seem to have completely idealistic, ridiculous and unrealistic views.
There was always going to be a massive response from Israel. I thought it might be worse than this. This has all been said before.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It isn't genocide.

Whether you like it or not, the October massacre would look like a very good reason to remove the Hamas threat permanently if you were an Israeli.

Civilian deaths are inevitable when Hamas purposefully hides behind them. They do it to make people like you side with them.

I’m genuinely at a loss as to how many people just think they get to determine what is and isn’t a genocide, in most cases not even with any attempt to support or justify the claim.

The claim is underpinned by a belief that you must understand what genocide is better than the International Association of Genocide Scholars, the UN Commission of Inquiry, Amnesty International, the governments of many states around the world as well as various human rights scholars.

Why do you think you understand genocide better than all of them?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

There's enough outrage all over the place against the Israelis. There is no need to add to it. It might be much better to try to temper it somewhat now, frankly.
I don't think anybody, more or less, agrees with killing loads of civilians but, some people can understand why it happens. Others seem to have completely idealistic, ridiculous and unrealistic views.
There was always going to be a massive response from Israel. I thought it might be worse than this. This has all been said before.

Many people, as this thread has evidenced, are completely indifferent to killing loads of civilians, as long as they’re Arab and/or Muslim - frankly there’s no other way one could still be in support of Israel, unless you have an indifference to the killing of Palestinians.

These are not people who just ‘understand why it happens’ - that’s a very disingenuous framing. There are many people who lie, distort and tie themselves in knots attempting to justify obvious war crimes.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Many people, as this thread has evidenced, are completely indifferent to killing loads of civilians, as long as they’re Arab and/or Muslim - frankly there’s no other way one could still be in support of Israel, unless you have an indifference to the killing of Palestinians.

These are not people who just ‘understand why it happens’ - that’s a very disingenuous framing. There are many people who lie, distort and tie themselves in knots attempting to justify obvious war crimes.

It's difficult to continue a discussion with someone who is so obtuse, purposefully or otherwise.

I fully admit that I support Israel as our ally and completely understand their actions after the October massacre. Equally, I hate the prospect of women and children dying in the conflict.

Unlike you, I place the blame for this human tragedy solely with Hamas. Of course, there is a bigger historical picture but a closer inspection of that history doesn't justify Hamas or their murderous intentions towards Jews simply for existing. Palestinians have no rightful or superior claim to the lands they currently occupy or any moral high ground in the conflict.

Continuing to bleat about the current situation will not alter the reality. The conflict will continue until one side yields, and Hamas would see every single civilian die before they surrendered.
Continuing to cry about civilian deaths and blaming one side is as futile as asking the tide to turn back. It completely ignores the causes and avoids facing up to the harsh reality.

.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It's difficult to continue a discussion with someone who is so obtuse, purposefully or otherwise.

I fully admit that I support Israel as our ally and completely understand their actions after the October massacre. Equally, I hate the prospect of women and children dying in the conflict.

Unlike you, I place the blame for this human tragedy solely with Hamas. Of course, there is a bigger historical picture but a closer inspection of that history doesn't justify Hamas or their murderous intentions towards Jews simply for existing. Palestinians have no rightful or superior claim to the lands they currently occupy or any moral high ground in the conflict.

Continuing to bleat about the current situation will not alter the reality. The conflict will continue until one side yields, and Hamas would see every single civilian die before they surrendered.
Continuing to cry about civilian deaths and blaming one side is as futile as asking the tide to turn back. It completely ignores the causes and avoids facing up to the harsh reality.

.

Why do you think you are better qualified to determine a genocide than those that I mentioned above?


I think to say you support Israel completely but you also hate the prospect of women and children dying in this conflict is completely contradictory - there is no logical way to hold both positions. By supporting Israel you continue to support the murder of women and children.

To suggest the military who have killed tens of thousands of civilians are not even slightly responsible for the killing of tens of thousands of civilians is just genuine insanity - it doesn't make even a slight bit of sense.

We've already established weeks ago that not a single post on this website is going to alter any reality, but we all make them regardless - I've no idea why you keep making that crap point to me.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Why do you think you are better qualified to determine a genocide than those that I mentioned above?


I think to say you support Israel completely but you also hate the prospect of women and children dying in this conflict is completely contradictory - there is no logical way to hold both positions. By supporting Israel you continue to support the murder of women and children.

To suggest the military who have killed tens of thousands of civilians are not even slightly responsible for the killing of tens of thousands of civilians is just genuine insanity - it doesn't make even a slight bit of sense.

We've already established weeks ago that not a single post on this website is going to alter any reality, but we all make them regardless - I've no idea why you keep making that crap point to me.

Your position is to blame one side for this situation. That is absurd.

This is a war and people can die in large numbers. 'Genocide' suggests that this isn't a conflict but an extermination. That is clearly not the case. However, Hamas would exterminate the Jews if they could. So would Iran. They have stated such an aim.

Where is your outrage?

You are not being honest.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Your position is to blame one side for this situation. That is absurd.

This is a war and people can die in large numbers. 'Genocide' suggests that this isn't a conflict but an extermination. That is clearly not the case. However, Hamas would exterminate the Jews if they could. So would Iran. They have stated such an aim.

Where is your outrage?

You are not being honest.

No, that in your position - I’m glad you think it’s absurd, because it is.

So you think all of those people and bodies mentioned don’t understand that ‘this is war and people can die’ when they conclude that it’s a genocide?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

No, that in your position - I’m glad you think it’s absurd, because it is.

So you think all of those people and bodies mentioned don’t understand that ‘this is war and people can die’ when they conclude that it’s a genocide?

You want to argue about definitions because it's easier than facing up to reality.

You can't legitimately defend Hamas or it's supporters so you indulge in reductive word play.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You want to argue about definitions because it's easier than facing up to reality.

You can't legitimately defend Hamas or its supporters so you indulge in reductive word play.

No, I want to qualify your claim that it’s not a genocide, which you so far have completely failed to do.

I have no intention of defending Hamas - shall I copy and paste the blurb where I state that I think both sides are genocidal terrorists again? I thought I’d get at least another week out of the last one.

There’s a real theme on this thread of people putting words in my mouth because they have no answer to my actual points.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Many people, as this thread has evidenced, are completely indifferent to killing loads of civilians, as long as they’re Arab and/or Muslim - frankly there’s no other way one could still be in support of Israel, unless you have an indifference to the killing of Palestinians.

These are not people who just ‘understand why it happens’ - that’s a very disingenuous framing. There are many people who lie, distort and tie themselves in knots attempting to justify obvious war crimes.

It's got nothing to do with Arab/Muslims... Actually more people are indifferent to Sudan today where other experts are warning of genocide. No marches, no media coverage.

Nobody justifies war crimes, they are inevitable and I have previously stated Israel probably has committed those, unwittingly or not. Maybe don't start a war in the first place?