Israel v Hamas

[eaglesdare]

Depends on who you are.

As is history.

If you are born a Palestinian and your child have been blown up you aren't going to side with the people who did that.

I am also not going to side with the side who initiated the conflict on October 7th and then precedes to hideout in my local hospital and use it as a base of operations.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It remains incredible to me how many people just unconditionally buy the narrative that Hamas are the 'good guys' no matter how much evidence we see to the contrary. some people seem to just need childishly simple narratives of 'good' and 'bad' to make sense of anything . . .

Please point to one thing I've ever said that suggests Hamas are good guys.

As ever, my view has to be mispresented because you can't land a blow otherwise.

I reckon I've explained this 10+ times on this thread, but I'll try it again for those struggling;

I am happy to condemn both sides as genocidal terrorists. I think they're both abhorrent death-cults.
The pretence that there are 'good guys' in this exists only on one side of the argument, which is those who continue to defend Israel.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I am also not going to side with the side who initiated the conflict on October 7th and then precedes to hideout in my local hospital and use it as a base of operations.

Every military uses civilian infrastructure in war if required.....and if you were fighting with the Palestinians of course you are going to need to be close to hospitals.

As for who initiated October 7th.....Do you seriously believe Mossad didn't know about it? The same guys who had planted explosives in the mobile phones and left them for a year. You don't think they have the tech to be listening into the leadership or even have moles?

 

[eaglesdare]

Every military uses civilian infrastructure in war if required.....and if you were fighting with the Palestinians of course you are going to need to be close to hospitals.

As for who initiated October 7th.....Do you seriously believe Mossad didn't know about it? The same guys who had planted explosives in the mobile phones and left them for a year. You don't think they have the tech to be listening into the leadership or even have moles?

No intelligence agency is infallible. For all the good work intelligence agencies do to prevent terrorist attacks some slip through unfortunately.

Just like 9/11 and 7/7. Would you say the UK government allowed the bombing of the underground stations? And US to allow New York to be hit?

 

[Eagleman13]

Please point to one thing I've ever said that suggests Hamas are good guys.

As ever, my view has to be mispresented because you can't land a blow otherwise.

I reckon I've explained this 10+ times on this thread, but I'll try it again for those struggling;

I am happy to condemn both sides as genocidal terrorists. I think they're both abhorrent death-cults.
The pretence that there are 'good guys' in this exists only on one side of the argument, which is those who continue to defend Israel.

Whooosh

PS: in not in a fight, so no blows needed. You carry on as you are, as i will.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Whooosh

PS: in not in a fight, so no blows needed. You carry on as you are, as i will.

Awful attempt - maybe next time.

 

[Eagleman13]

Awful attempt - maybe next time.

Don't need a next time thank you.

 

[Stirlingsays]

No intelligence agency is infallible. For all the good work intelligence agencies do to prevent terrorist attacks some slip through unfortunately.

Well, if that's what you believe.....I view that as highly unrealistic.

Just like 9/11 and 7/7. Would you say the UK government allowed the bombing of the underground stations? And US to allow New York to be hit?

Government and intel/security are branches, they aren't one and the same....one's personnel changes regularly while the other's doesn't.
I can't see what advantage 7/7 would gain for the British in policy change for wars, whereas 9/11 can be used as a pretext for middle eastern wars and was.

But personally I'm not someone that thinks the US government knew about the 9/11 attack.....Intel agencies? Well, there's evidence that Mossad knew.
And as with October 7th, there was much to gain.

 

[eaglesdare]

Well, if that's what you believe.....I view that as highly unrealistic.



Government and intel/security are branches, they aren't one and the same....one's personnel changes regularly while the other's doesn't.
I can't see what advantage 7/7 would gain for the British in policy change for wars, whereas 9/11 can be used as a pretext for middle eastern wars and was.

But personally I'm not someone that thinks the US government knew about the 9/11 attack.....Intel agencies? Well, there's evidence that Mossad knew.
And as with October 7th, there was much to gain.

It could be true what you say. And you do have sound reasoning. However I personally don't believe Israel would have allowed the 7th October attack to happen if they have known about it. Same for the US on 9/11. It literally shook the world.

I guess maybe we can agree to disagree on this one? 😊

 

[Stirlingsays]

It could be true what you say. And you do have sound reasoning. However I personally don't believe Israel would have allowed the 7th October attack to happen if they have known about it. Same for the US on 9/11. It literally shook the world.

I guess maybe we can agree to disagree on this one? 😊

Sure, we all have opinions and are all outside observers.

You can only go on the balance of probabilities based upon what the evidence is out there.....and obviously you use your judgement on whether that evidence is valid.

My view is, just as the Kennedy assassination likely wasn't all the CIA but involved a small but powerful group within it I think it operates much the same....Insomuch as who knows what is tightly restricted to who needs to know as the truth on these things would see the fall of governments (even if sometimes most or all of the government doesn't know).

If that is cast iron true then all the actual evidence for it would have been destroyed probably at the time (people at this level may be immoral but they aren't stupid).....It's certainly true that before the Church commission (which is proven they lied to and apparently spooked them) in the mid 70s that the CIA was run more like the mafia. As for Mossad, they never had even the Church commission and aren't on any leash.

Then there's the question of, if parts of agencies do have knowledge of an attack, just how much do they know for certain as the truth, I imagine agencies are receiving intel all the time (some of it deliberate misinformation from other agencies or interested parties).

Then there is the question of motivation....who gains....what is the likely outcome and what does that benefit. Sure, the idea that intel agencies are behind everything is absurd, but major events that create drastic changes are open to question.

My view on Mossad knowledge prior to the 9/11 doesn't come out of nowhere. I think it's pretty solid.

My opinion of Mossad knowledge prior to 7th October is based on the balance of probabilities and who gains and my opinion of the morality and lack of accountability of intel agencies.

 

[HKOwen]

That's not even close to true.

Its nearly complete because they have almost displaced everyone from the land and will now occupy it for their own.

Oh no, another musician who said some mean words - the real villains!

" The Land " being what exactly? That area currently defined as The Gaza Strip?

What is "nearly complete" as a percentage?

Where have two million people been removed to?

Apologies if I am reading what you wrote and assumed you actually meant it as written.



No answer at all from CPFC Saturn on this point, the silence speaks volumes

Reply

 

[HKOwen]

Putting on a " Press " sign does not make you a journalist.

" Journalists " flocked to the photo of the emaciated child which turned out to be a genetic condition, nothing to do with the war and failed to show the poor child's healthy not starving sibling.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

" The Land " being what exactly? That area currently defined as The Gaza Strip?

What is "nearly complete" as a percentage?

Where have two million people been removed to?

Apologies if I am reading what you wrote and assumed you actually meant it as written.



No answer at all from CPFC Saturn on this point, the silence speaks volumes

Reply

I don't engage with trolls, but thanks for following up - very normal behaviour.

 

[Spindle]

It's a legitimate question. Can you explain to us why the Israel national army and government is not allowed on it's own territory? Is it because they are Jews? It doesn't get more anti-semetic than that.

My mum seems to have been indoctrinated on this bullshit too. She said it was invasion and stealing land etc but when it came to Arabs moving in places she just said it was natural immigration as people settled and moved about.

Release the Hostages and Surrender, then it's over.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It's a legitimate question. Can you explain to us why the Israel national army and government is not allowed on it's own territory? Is it because they are Jews? It doesn't get more anti-semetic than that.

My mum seems to have been indoctrinated on this bullshit too. She said it was invasion and stealing land etc but when it came to Arabs moving in places she just said it was natural immigration as people settled and moved about.

Release the Hostages and Surrender, then it's over.

Goodness me, still plugging this shameless anti-semitism guff - there's an amazing overlap of people who claim to be against all the 'woke' stuff, but are so willing to fake offense and weaponise allegations of discrimination, exactly like the people they supposedly hate.


What are you defining as Israel's own territory?


There's one person who has clearly been indoctrinated on bullshit, and it's not your mum.

 

[cryrst]

Every military uses civilian infrastructure in war if required.....and if you were fighting with the Palestinians of course you are going to need to be close to hospitals.

As for who initiated October 7th.....Do you seriously believe Mossad didn't know about it? The same guys who had planted explosives in the mobile phones and left them for a year. You don't think they have the tech to be listening into the leadership or even have moles?

They most likely did but as with overlord the Germans made the wrong assumption of our landings. The Israel border is too big to put forces along every single inch and they clearly guessed wrong. Who would have thought a festival was the target, not something military.

 

[cryrst]

Please point to one thing I've ever said that suggests Hamas are good guys.

As ever, my view has to be mispresented because you can't land a blow otherwise.

I reckon I've explained this 10+ times on this thread, but I'll try it again for those struggling;

I am happy to condemn both sides as genocidal terrorists. I think they're both abhorrent death-cults.
The pretence that there are 'good guys' in this exists only on one side of the argument, which is those who continue to defend Israel.

So why not sit on the fence if they are both as bad. Hostages and Hamas . One needs to return one needs to leave. Pack your bags Wars over.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So why not sit on the fence if they are both as bad. Hostages and Hamas . One needs to return one needs to leave. Pack your bags Wars over.

The IDF do not give one single f*** about the hostages, it's staggering people still think they do - there have been huge mass protests in Israel this weekend, led by the relatives of the hostages, condemning Israel's decision to continue choosing military escalation over negotiation for a release.

 

[cryrst]

The IDF do not give one single f*** about the hostages, it's staggering people still think they do - there have been huge mass protests in Israel this weekend, led by the relatives of the hostages, condemning Israel's decision to continue choosing military escalation over negotiation for a release.

The IDF are dying as well. Doing their job.
They have to conscript for so long and if it’s active at the time they have to fight. It’s sad that they constantly need an active army because they are Jews don’t you think !

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The IDF are dying as well. Doing their job.
They have to conscript for so long and if it’s active at the time they have to fight. It’s sad that they constantly need an active army because they are Jews don’t you think !

I thought we were talking about hostages?

Of all the people in the world I could have sympathy for, the IDF are somewhere near the bottom of the list.