Israel v Hamas

[CPFCSaturn]

Actually it does.

Had Hamas come to the table and agreed a settlement, none of this would be happening. Unless of course, they reneged on any deal.
Hamas were elected by Palestinians to represent them. They have repaid the honour by sacrificing thousands of their people to continue their Jew hating crusade.

Again, there are 100s of such historical hypotheticals we could explore on both sides of the conflict which would have prevented the current state of play - none of them change the reality of where we are now.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Again, there are 100s of such historical hypotheticals we could explore on both sides of the conflict which would have prevented the current state of play - none of them change the reality of where we are now.

But if those involved had taken a different, more sensible path, everything would be different.

That's not speculation. That is a fact.

 

[georgenorman]

No it doesn't mean that.

It means that Palestinians are paying the price for having a bunch of Jew hating scumbags as their leadership.
Whether they deserve it or not is rather beside the point. It is a consequence of decisions taken by men corrupted by power and religious insanity.

Remember the scenes of unbridled joy there after 9/11?
Remember the cheering crowds spitting on the naked corpses of raped and, tortured and murdered young women being paraded through the streets after Oct 2023?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Remember the scenes of unbridled joy there after 9/11?
Remember the cheering crowds spitting on the naked corpses of raped and, tortured and murdered young women being paraded through the streets after Oct 2023?

Unfortunately.

It's hard to be sympathetic. I just feel sorry for the little kids.

Clearly, sympathy of any kind is hard to find in that region. The best reason imaginable to stop more of them coming here.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

But if those involved had taken a different, more sensible path, everything would be different.

That's not speculation. That is a fact.

Yes, of course it is - but that's also true of Israel.

I just don't see the benefit in hypothesising about what might have been - we are where we find ourselves, and Israel's atrocities are no more acceptable because Palestinians could have taken different options at various points over the decades.

 

[Spindle]

That there have been more reasonable Israeli governments in the past than this one is clearly true. As is that the Palestinian leadership has been both divided and unrealistic.

Those though are yesterday’s problems. Today’s are how to stop the killing and allow a period of peace to try to find a solution that avoids it starting again.

One of the biggest problems is that the Netanyahu government is controlled by people from the extremist settler movement. People who see all the West Bank and Gaza as theirs and are prepared to take it violently. And are doing so. There is no chance of compromise with them.

So countries recognising a Palestinian state is tokenism at best until Israel changes its government. I know there is opposition to Netanyahu in Israel but how strong it is now I don’t know. I don’t see a practical solution right now.

To save everyone from reading this, it's Israel's fault

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yes, of course it is - but that's also true of Israel.

I just don't see the benefit in hypothesising about what might have been - we are where we find ourselves, and Israel's atrocities are no more acceptable because Palestinians could have taken different options at various points over the decades.

Consequences dear boy.

You complain about the current situation, but you won't address the causes.
This is not a computer game. We have arrived here because of human stupidity.
Don't hold your breath for anyone involved to become less stupid.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Consequences dear boy.

You complain about the current situation, but you won't address the causes.
This is not a computer game. We have arrived here because of human stupidity.
Don't hold your breath for anyone involved to become less stupid.

The causes are nuanced, multi-faceted and involve decades of decisions made by hundreds of individuals on both sides - I don't agree with oversimplifying things to a single decision or single act that would have solved the problem. I think that's simplistic and unhelpful.

 

[Spindle]

But if those involved had taken a different, more sensible path, everything would be different.

That's not speculation. That is a fact.

Such as releasing the hostages, surrendering, and disbanding.

Hamas are either still powerful and ruling Gaza, or they are finished, in which case why aren't the people who hate them handing them over, stopping them, demanding they disband?

Still don't have an answer to this

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The causes are nuanced, multi-faceted and involve decades of decisions made by hundreds of individuals on both sides - I don't agree with oversimplifying things to a single decision or single act that would have solved the problem. I think that's simplistic and unhelpful.

So the concept of consequences is simplistic? Are you OK?

So by that logic, no one is to blame for the current situation?

You are spinning in circles.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Such as releasing the hostages, surrendering, and disbanding.

Hamas are either still powerful and ruling Gaza, or they are finished, in which case why aren't the people who hate them handing them over, stopping them, demanding they disband?

Still don't have an answer to this

I'm afraid there is only ever one side of a story for those who don't wish to hear the other.

Hamas is at least equally responsible for the bloodshed.

 

[steeleye20]

The Saudi minister who said Israel should be towed to Alaska is actually suggesting a viable solution.

Israel is dependent on the USA, an oligarchy not a democracy, and really a jewish one, unfortunately the worlds no.1 power but its declining rapidly.

Only the United States is left as Israel's provider, it is a state on US benefits.

They could watch Hollywood holocaust movies together in splendid isolation, secure and safe.

What they are doing here a genocide in plain sight, is repulsing all normal people, they are just so beyond any reason.

 

[Spindle]

Yes, of course it is - but that's also true of Israel.

I just don't see the benefit in hypothesising about what might have been - we are where we find ourselves, and Israel's atrocities are no more acceptable because Palestinians could have taken different options at various points over the decades.

Bomber Harris once said "they sowed the wind, now they shall reap the whirlwind"

It wasn't unexpected.

To put this in perspective, this translates to an equivalence in England, of 10,000 people murdered and 1600 hostages.

In the USA it translates to as many murdered in a day as they took in soldier KIA in the entire Vietnam war.

And Saturn thinks we would be restrained. It's f***ing delusional.

 

[Spindle]

The causes are nuanced, multi-faceted and involve decades of decisions made by hundreds of individuals on both sides - I don't agree with oversimplifying things to a single decision or single act that would have solved the problem. I think that's simplistic and unhelpful.

Think hard, but what was the cause of this phase again?

 

[Spindle]

The Saudi minister who said Israel should be towed to Alaska is actually suggesting a viable solution.

Israel is dependent on the USA, an oligarchy not a democracy, and really a jewish one, unfortunately the worlds no.1 power but its declining rapidly.

Only the United States is left as Israel's provider, it is a state on US benefits.

They could watch Hollywood holocaust movies together in splendid isolation, secure and safe.

What they are doing here a genocide in plain sight, is repulsing all normal people, they are just so beyond any reason.

What a repulsive post.

A solution of ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Jew proposed by the centre of Islam, and upheld by Steeley. It's vile.

Why don't we just ship all the Palestinians to somewhere else in the Arab world. There's plenty of room.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

What a repulsive post.

A solution of ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Jew proposed by the centre of Islam, and upheld by Steeley. It's vile.

Why don't we just ship all the Palestinians to somewhere else in the Arab world. There's plenty of room.

They don't want them. They clearly aren't as dumb as us, at least in that respect.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So the concept of consequences is simplistic? Are you OK?

So by that logic, no one is to blame for the current situation?

You are spinning in circles.

No, you just seem to struggle with basic comprehension.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

No, you just seem to struggle with basic comprehension.

Maybe, but I do know bullshit when I see it.

 

[georgenorman]

What a repulsive post.

A solution of ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Jew proposed by the centre of Islam, and upheld by Steeley. It's vile.

Why don't we just ship all the Palestinians to somewhere else in the Arab world. There's plenty of room.

Steeleye's posts are kind of like a madman running around trying to find his padded cell.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

To save everyone from reading this, it's Israel's fault

Untrue.

There are a large number of people and countries who are complicit in the situation that now exists.