I'd be happy with Sharia law, sex offenders executed, criminals having their hands cut off, what's not to like.
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Here we go, blatant two tier judiciary
- Topic starter HKOwen
- Start date
Serious question regarding the latest ruling on minorities sentencing.
How accurate is the data this decision is based on?
There are always claims that certain groups are proportionally more likely to be jailed and a quick look at the jail population backs that up. But is that an accurate picture?
If a white person and a minority commit the same crime and the minority person goes to jail some would say this is discrimination. But what if this was a first offence for the white person whilst the minority person had a string of convictions, you are comparing apples and oranges.
So are they being discriminated against or do they commit more crime ?
How accurate is the data this decision is based on?
There are always claims that certain groups are proportionally more likely to be jailed and a quick look at the jail population backs that up. But is that an accurate picture?
If a white person and a minority commit the same crime and the minority person goes to jail some would say this is discrimination. But what if this was a first offence for the white person whilst the minority person had a string of convictions, you are comparing apples and oranges.
So are they being discriminated against or do they commit more crime ?
DANGERCLOSE
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- London
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England
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Yeah, it's like getting a 10% discount.
Well personally I think this new legislation is absolutely fantastic news. The perfect thing to help even more white people wake up to what is happpening. Thank you Labour. More of the same please.
Because it is stuff like this that drives more and more people towards the Right. Love it to bits!
Tomorrow TRULY belongs to us!
Because it is stuff like this that drives more and more people towards the Right. Love it to bits!
Tomorrow TRULY belongs to us!
Out of interest, how do you see this tomorrow playing out in the UK? Even if Reform get the votes they’re polling now it won’t reflect meaningfully into seats in government because of where the votes are coming from.
Asking as you’re heart on your sleeve with your beliefs, which I massively respect, even if diametrically opposed to them.
Its a valid question and I do enjoy the chance to pontificate, so thanks for that. Sadly though, not got the time at the moment but promise you I will try and formulate something. Only thing I would say is that currently there seems to be more talk about a 'British Civil War' than I have ever seen before. And a notion being espoused by some serious people who do seem to have a potential link to the intelligence services, at least in terms of potentially being consulted on how things might pan out (my own personal, and very much on the hoof so feel free to tear it apart, view point is that we are currently in the early stages of an actual civil war with the two sides being essentially 'white' i.e the increasingly dispossessed white working (as opposed to welfare) classes and the Managerialists/Soc.libs. For example the bladerunners who are attacking the Ulez infastructure. That is technically a terrorist organisation).
I would posit that somebody, somewhere, deep in the bowels of the SW1 Deep State, is seriously concerned about how the future might pan out because it seems clear that as things stand, the reality of the West since 1945 is about to have one massive shake up.
Another genuine question here, and I never thought I’d say this, but I want to here more from Stirling, is class a massive issue we’re all underestimating here?
The way I see it is that the Left, with some notable exceptions, effectively switched class for identity in terms of the prism they vied the world, especially in terms of the UK. Throw in the collapse of the Trade Union movement in the 80's (and who probably are the last segment of the 'left' who never gave up on class as the defining factor) and you effectively get 'New Labour' then the Progressive movement and then we get the Left who try to sweep the grooming gangs under the carpet. Which has probably done more to damage the fabric of British society than any event since perhaps the Miners strike.
Never forget that when Marx formulated his world-view, it was always based primarily on the British class system. Interestingly, at this precise moment in time, Left wing grifters such as Ash Saker are doing the rounds trying to reclaim the class war as the one-true calling so the tide is turning but the damage has been done.
Stirlingsays
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England
I've spoken many times about divisions within society and how they have widened due to both demographic change, social media and the financial changes within society.....one of the sympathies I have with leftist criticisms is their observation example of bank manager pay and the creation of financial 'betting' products meant that essentially a section of finance (not your tellers or ground staff) completely lost touch with the communities they came from.
I've never been much of a fan of wealth inequality, not because of the reasons the progressives have for it....Who are just as extreme in the opposite way, but because there needs to be a symbiotic relationship between rich and the relative poor. History has shown multiple times that when the rich don't feel a part of a wider community it doesn't end well for anyone.
The loss of connection that comes from wealth independence is just as analogous as is the loss of economic co-dependence between nations, not as immediately dangerous as that, but as with the other factors above it corrodes the social contract and trust between the classes.
The loss of trust is dangerous as we are seeing with the new cold war and Trump's tariffs on his neighbours (I understand why he's doing it but it still brings problems).
In terms of the contempt the British intelligentsia have for the white working classes it's enabled by that disconnect that comes from the above factors. Not only that but, they all get taught (what you believe) via the university system since the sixities....as I've also said many times, the institutions we are speaking about have had the remaining right wing attitudes that existed filtered out from them and essentially speak with one liberalised voice. (something that social conservativism never did to the left, due to the deference to merit rather than ideological loyalty).
Essentially the institutions that govern the working classes are opposed to a large section of them on ideological grounds and it's a disfigurement that results in ever lowering social cohesion.
Stirlingsays
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England
Yeah, you summed that up a lot better than I did.
It's the direction of travel because it fits in with the ideological biases of that class.
Stirlingsays
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England
I listen to the lotuseaters a lot and interestingly they mentioned that Ash Saker had recently shifted somewhat on identity politics. I can't remember the specifics but interesting nevertheless.
Teddy Eagle
Member
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Scotland
Who is the object of this change?
1. The police for arresting the wrong people.
2. The CPS for prosecuting.
3. Judges for imposing unfair sentences.
1. The police for arresting the wrong people.
2. The CPS for prosecuting.
3. Judges for imposing unfair sentences.
She is over everything at the moment. Shilling some book she has written. I usually ignore because ultimately, she has nothing to say worth listening to BUT she does offer a value of a sort in being very much a barometer for where the Progressive Left Zeitgiest is at any one time.
There is a definite shift.
Reform's polling has definitely caused them some issues. And also I think the rise of the 'independent' Muslim vote (the Media always seem to be ignore the 4 MP's who got elected who are effectively the Islamic Party) has shaken them because whilst they have always seen themselves as being the 'champions' of British Muslims, I think they understand that ultimately, there is no long term future in that for them for obvious reasons.
Always thought the biggest irony of people like Ms Sakar defining herself as 'Muslim' is that if we woke up tomorrow in some kind of caliphate, then she is in far more trouble with that than I am.
Teddy Eagle
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Scotland
From the House of Commons Library
Overall, in 2019 defendants from the White ethnic group were more likely to be convicted (85% of which were found guilty) than those from BAME groups (79%). Here the White category includes: ‘British’, ‘Irish’ and ‘Any other White background’.
The higher conviction ratio might be partly explained by the higher rate of ‘guilty’ pleading among White defendants. If we look at defendants in Crown Court trials in 2019, 37% defendants from BAME groups pleaded ‘not guilty’ compared with 27% of White defendants. The Lammy Review explained that willingness to plead guilty is linked to trust in the fairness of the legal system.
A guilty plea carries a discount of up to one-third of sentence length at the sentencing stage, so the higher rate of ‘guilty’ pleading among White defendants could explain why we see longer average custodial sentence lengths (ACSL) being handed down to BAME offenders. The average in 2019 was 27.1 months for offenders from BAME backgrounds, compared with 19.5 months for White offenders.
Overall, in 2019 defendants from the White ethnic group were more likely to be convicted (85% of which were found guilty) than those from BAME groups (79%). Here the White category includes: ‘British’, ‘Irish’ and ‘Any other White background’.
The higher conviction ratio might be partly explained by the higher rate of ‘guilty’ pleading among White defendants. If we look at defendants in Crown Court trials in 2019, 37% defendants from BAME groups pleaded ‘not guilty’ compared with 27% of White defendants. The Lammy Review explained that willingness to plead guilty is linked to trust in the fairness of the legal system.
A guilty plea carries a discount of up to one-third of sentence length at the sentencing stage, so the higher rate of ‘guilty’ pleading among White defendants could explain why we see longer average custodial sentence lengths (ACSL) being handed down to BAME offenders. The average in 2019 was 27.1 months for offenders from BAME backgrounds, compared with 19.5 months for White offenders.
Thanks I didn't know that. So basically the defendants are not listening to their lawyers? I was on a case where a white guy beat up a Bulgarian man all on CCTV he plead not guilty. I would love to know his reasons it only tok one look at the video for me to make up my mind.
It still didn't fully answer my question about prior offences. Are minorities who go to jail more likely to have previous than a white male? Not sure where or even if the information is available as it is complex.
Spindle
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England
Fair shout. Ramadan, let's bend over backwards (yes we do, my workplace even has a policy so practicing muslims are "accommodated" (ie they get some extra home working if the want). But lent? Nope.
That said, I give up lent for lent.
Hrolf The Ganger
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- a sofa somewhere in Kent.
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England
I agree, but I'm always torn on this issue because I am an athiest, and I beleive in a cecular society.
Putting the plus points of Christian code of ethics aside for a moment, I don't think we should be indulging in a religious competition over whose holy days are more important. After all, the deeply religious are obviously not capable of reason when it comes to such matters, but the rest of us are.
Instead of bigging up religion of any kind, we should be discouraging organised religion in this country and promoting beleif as a personal and private thing.
It's bad enough that we are importing religious fanatics into this country by the thousands, and encouraging them just looks like a backwards stepping capitulation to archaic ideas.
Stirlingsays
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England
I think it comes down to what kind of propaganda the state pumps out.....it always has been that way. Religion was removed in all practical senses long long ago.
Britain and Europe have been living in a neo/social liberal era since the war generation died off and everything we see around us is built from those worldviews......it's secular yes, but take a look at what's underneath that lid.....it's progressive.
If you look at humanism....something I was interested in around 2012, I found that it was basically a cover for progressivism and far left politics. If you approached it with a right wing perspective you were quickly considered not to be a humanist.
None of this will change until the elites in charge are changed.....and I don't mean the uniparty efforts of Tory and Labour....even Reform, in reality, only represent a minor deflection as they will be hindered by the system....similar to the AfD in Germany.
The liberal establishment actually aren't that interested in democracy...for them democracy means protecting their ideological dominance in the institutions and thus we have already seen how they are willing to manipulate the system to remain in power.....France, Romania and Poland for example.
It's not about how well their ideas work, it's about paying their mortgage and how they are doing personally.....the 'go along to get along' establishment that is essentially all systems. So whatever set of lies and half truths work.
I think the upshot is that we are stuck within this failing system until it collapses under its own failures, ironically just as the Soviet system did. This realisation doesn't make me happy at all.
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