German Christmas market

[Matov]

This is the most important factor here. Five people killed including this young boy and 200+ injured. Who cares about the religious or political affiliation of the person responsible.

If the driver had suffered a medical emergency and then lost control of the vehicle, then not very much. But if somebody goes to all the trouble of doing so deliberately, then religious and political affiliation of the person responsible suddenly start to matter a lot more.

This has all the hall-marks of a terrorist attack. And therefore, motive is everything.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Seems pretty spot on to me.

When I worked in computing I certainly saw aspects of this with Muslims. They seemingly easily adjusted their behaviour between their own community and between their western friends. Their book gives them license to do this when they are in the minority.

In their book It's a different picture when they are the majority.

However, I will say that....at least with the few I knew....they were pretty run of the mill people, not bad people. However, the integration aspect was always on their terms and only for their benefit.....mainly economic. The loyalty they have is to their ethnic community, not this nation.

If these same people were in majority Muslim countries they wouldn't be on your side.

 

[Stirlingsays]

This is the most important factor here. Five people killed including this young boy and 200+ injured. Who cares about the religious or political affiliation of the person responsible.

If you're a first responser or working on survivor treatment sure.

If you're looking at the direction of travel and the future for your grandchildren in Europe, well of course it matters.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

If you're a first responser or working on survivor treatment sure.

If you're looking at the direction of travel and the future for your grandchildren in Europe, well of course it matters.

For sure but what I meant is that at the moment his motives are unknown and in these increasingly frequent incidents the victims and their families tend to get lost in discussions to and fro about what they may have been.

 

[Stirlingsays]

For sure but what I meant is that at the moment his motives are unknown and in these increasingly frequent incidents the victims and their families tend to get lost in discussions to and fro about what they may have been.

For those affected at the family level or for those directly dealing with these circumstances then I'd agree that concerning yourself with panned out discussions over our future is taking your eye off the ball.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the rest of us are meant to do.....Are we meant to just not comment....wait for two weeks? Do the cucked German guilt thing and just accept it?

It's still Anglo Saxon blood on the streets.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

For those affected at the family level or for those directly dealing with these circumstances then I'd agree that concerning yourself with panned out discussions over our future is taking your eye off the ball.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the rest of us are meant to do.....Are we meant to just not comment....wait for two weeks? Do the cucked German guilt thing and just accept it?

It's still Anglo Saxon blood on the streets.

I don't know what we should, or can, do. Is there a way of resolving things? We can only hope so because it's hard to see how the situation won't go on and, God forbid, get worse.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I think there is a perception, based on incidents like this, that Europe is the unprotected hive of Christianity.
A perception that we clothe, house and feed immigrants, no matter where they come from, and whatever their motives for being here.
A largely free society, where people can gather and largely do as they wish (except perhaps rape victims vigils).
On one hand the public are put at greater risk of terrorism
On the other, it suits our Government to keep people afraid and justify ever more rigorous measures of monitoring the individual. Control.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't know what we should, or can, do. Is there a way of resolving things? We can only hope so because it's hard to see how the situation won't go on and, God forbid, get worse.

It most certainly will get worse, the governments will get more authoritarian and as demographics change society will proportionally move to a lower trust society, which means more tribal....All the knock on effects are inevitable....that means lower investment, lower standard of living.....All standard logical stuff unless you're left wing and living with ideological blind spots.

My opinion on what you should do is not be an island. The way we have lived isn't the most sensible way for the future.....maybe us oldies can continue that, but it's for the birds longer term.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

Allegedly the Saudis warned them about his views a while ago and he was on their terror list and requested his deportation......

so its ok for the Saudi State to be brutal , murderous and violent. But not one of their little citizens ?

sounds a bit like hypocrisy to me.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

However, the integration aspect was always on their terms and only for their benefit.....mainly economic. The loyalty they have is to their ethnic community, not this nation.
If these same people were in majority Muslim countries they wouldn't be on your side.

was there equal conjugal 50:50 respect ? in terms of marriage and dating ? Could they date your sister ? Could you date their sister ? And all egalitarian, respectful of the culture of other people ?

surely respect is a two-way street ?

Interpol posts yellow missing persons alert over Irish woman's children being held in Egypt

Mandy Kelly has not seen her children since 2022 when their father drove away with them during a family holiday in Egypt

www.irishexaminer.com

 

[Badadmcmad]

I think your observation on the Israeli lobby's self interest and motives is a fair criticism to make. I've made several criticisms myself of foreign lobbies, and of those lobbies the Israeli one is by far the most powerful. For example, I consider the building of a Holocaust museum outside parliament to be an insult as this crime had nothing to do with Britain and though I recognise this tragedy we never fought WW2 over his death camps. Hitler killed far more slavs than Jews.....are we going to build a museum for them? I highly doubt it.

Is it wrong for them to highlight the negative contribution Islam makes to Europe though? No, on that I think they only speak the truth......However for me, that does not translate into agreeing with levelling civilians in Gaza.

I like the fact that you highlight the reality that prominent Jews have also spoken out against what is happening in Israel as I think that's an important balance to have because as we can all be guilty of lumping everyone from a demographic into the same ideological camp.

However I will make the point that the idea that JD Vance or Nigel Farage are 'far right' (I don't know who Andrew Neal is...do you mean Andrew Neil?).....indeed, I had a little laugh at this. Anyone who actually knows what the 'far right' think of Vance (mixed race family) and Farage (Thatcherite and Islamic chairman) would know that they most definitely aren't under the same label.

They may be 'far right' to someone with your perspective but in reality they are civic nationalists and that's a significant difference from the 'far right'. It's like calling Blair a socialist because he's in the Labour party.

It's not wrong to highlight the negative contribution of any person or group as long as those observations are fair and based on fact rather than prejudice which it very strongly appears to be in this case. To that end I would highly recommend you consider the evidence put forward by Jones'. It serves us all far better to scrutinise the evidence rather than simply fall back on existing prejudices.

There are a very large number of exceptionally courageous Jews who fight with dedication and righteousness to stop the genocide and to contest Zionist atrocities. Norman Finkelstein is a very notable Jew whose family was slaughtered during the Holocaust and has dedicated his academic career to the conflict. There are many, many others, as the numerous reports of protests in Israel demonstrate.

I do mean Neil, sorry, that was a typo. It is reasonable to suggest there are differences in extremity between those characters, depending on what degree of resolution and which specific issue you wish to consider. It's the trouble with labels - left, right, centre... In this case, I consider the reactions to this event by so many figures who are undeniably from the right of politics and media as indicative of a far right mentality - a polarisation - whereby on the strength of only very limited information about the actual event and likely thoughts of previous similar events, they have taken the opportunity to bait their bases with innuendo; playing to the heightened prejudices and bigotries that that they have nurtured throughout their careers. The evidence for these assertions is laid out by Jones' in his citations of each of those figures and so I would strongly recommend you take an objective consideration of the arguments made as they do form a cogent and straight forward narrative. The other side of the argument so far consists of speculations and conspiracy theories about unverified claims of the suspect shouting 'Allahu Ahkbar' and being a double agent etc. All being unsubstantiated but all, conveniently, serving the positions of of those prominent political figures who run the risk of being exposed as racist bigots by this case.

Civic nationalists is a new term to me. As I said, on this issue, I see very similar reactions from a number of commentators from the right hand of the spectrum followed by quite a lot of frantic back-tracking. Those reactions are no different from those from the furthest right wing. If you want to try to split hairs, by all means you are welcome to contest each of those figures' reactions and explain how they are indicative of a spectrum of the existence of a wide spectrum of right wing opinion.

Being far right, is also not exclusive to a given creed. The Zionist movement is also far right and it has it's Arab contingent, for instance: Meet the Arab Zionists: a new generation of online pioneers.

Nuances, and exceptions granted, but I hope that clarifies my position sufficiently.

 

[Badadmcmad]

Some of your comments are right, in that we need to ask questions about what is really going on here in light of the subsequent information about the perpetrator of this attack. Sadly what lets you down is your dismissal of Andrew Neill and Nigel Farage as "far right". They are right of centre, and no more "far right" than Keir Starmer is far left (read communist for that). What is also inescapable is that once again the perpetrator of mass murder in Europe is a 1st generation immigrant. Unpalatable as it is to some people, almost all terrorist murders in Europe since 2001 have been carried out by relatively recent immigrants. Of course it doesn't mean that all immigrants are potential murderers, but it does surely mean that our governments need to prioritise proper control over immigration, and ensure that the values which created Western democracies are properly protected (ie freedom of thought, tolerance and democracy).

There is very little difference between the reactions to this event from those highlighted - not enough to indicate a spectrum of views on the subject across the right of politics. All the figures cited demonstrate racist bigotry. If they are a cross section of the right of politics then it's all pretty similar in terms of Islamaphobia. Either that or they are all far right, or all centre right. However you want to cut it, it's demonstrative of racist bigotry.

I'll certainly concede that distinctions will be more noticeable on other issues.

Your claim about the terrorism in Europe did peak my interest, so I did a little digging. Not got too far yet, but here is some data from 2010-2021 showing ethno-nationalist attacks as most prevalent.

Loading…

www.consilium.europa.eu

Here the 2024 report (which includes 2021 to 2023 data) shows the same trend in terms of numbers of attacks but it does note that Jihadist attacks were most lethal with 6 deaths and 12 injured.

Loading…

www.europol.europa.eu

You should look into the malign influence of Western democracies throughout Arab regions to really get an appropriate perspective on how they operate. Consider 'blowback' from CIA sponsored groups like Al Qaeda (especially now with the situation in Syria).

 

[Stirlingsays]

was there equal conjugal 50:50 respect ? in terms of marriage and dating ? Could they date your sister ? Could you date their sister ? And all egalitarian, respectful of the culture of other people ?

surely respect is a two-way street ?

Interpol posts yellow missing persons alert over Irish woman's children being held in Egypt

Mandy Kelly has not seen her children since 2022 when their father drove away with them during a family holiday in Egypt

www.irishexaminer.com

I'm probably not the best guy to ask.

 

[georgenorman]

There is very little difference between the reactions to this event from those highlighted - not enough to indicate a spectrum of views on the subject across the right of politics. All the figures cited demonstrate racist bigotry. If they are a cross section of the right of politics then it's all pretty similar in terms of Islamaphobia. Either that or they are all far right, or all centre right. However you want to cut it, it's demonstrative of racist bigotry.

I'll certainly concede that distinctions will be more noticeable on other issues.

Your claim about the terrorism in Europe did peak my interest, so I did a little digging. Not got too far yet, but here is some data from 2010-2021 showing ethno-nationalist attacks as most prevalent.

Loading…

www.consilium.europa.eu

Here the 2024 report (which includes 2021 to 2023 data) shows the same trend in terms of numbers of attacks but it does note that Jihadist attacks were most lethal with 6 deaths and 12 injured.

Loading…

www.europol.europa.eu

You should look into the malign influence of Western democracies throughout Arab regions to really get an appropriate perspective on how they operate. Consider 'blowback' from CIA sponsored groups like Al Qaeda (especially now with the situation in Syria).

Your touching take on Islamic terrorists reminds me of the Monty Python sketch:

Rogers: I’ve been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.

Stig: No. Never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to buy his mother flowers and that. He was like a brother to me.

Rogers: But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.

Stig: (pause) Oh yeah, he did that.

Rogers: Why?

Stig: Well he had to, didn’t he? I mean there was nothing else he could do, be fair. I had transgressed the unwritten law.

Rogers: What had you done?

Stig: Er… well he didn’t tell me that, but he gave me his word that it was the case, and that’s good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn’t want to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off. He’d do anything for you, Dinsdale would.

Rogers: And you don’t bear him a grudge?

Stig: A grudge! Old Dinsy. He was a real darling.

Rogers: I understand he also nailed your wife’s head to a coffee table. Isn’t that true Mrs. O’ Tracy?

 

[cryrst]

so its ok for the Saudi State to be brutal , murderous and violent. But not one of their little citizens ?

sounds a bit like hypocrisy to me.

How would you like terrorists to be treated,
9/11. 7/7. London bridge, nice, and on and on? Personally they would not ever think different no matter how much jail time?
30 years ago I didn’t have kids who might be on the end of a bomb, knife or gun. When the 5th legion have enough bodies on the ground your opinion might change when 100s are being killed. Mock if you want but it’s coming !

 

[Stirlingsays]

Nuances, and exceptions granted, but I hope that clarifies my position sufficiently.

I'd give this a thoughtful reply but I've been at the booze.

I've had more measures than Fern Britton trying to fit into skinny jeans.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

There is very little difference between the reactions to this event from those highlighted - not enough to indicate a spectrum of views on the subject across the right of politics. All the figures cited demonstrate racist bigotry. If they are a cross section of the right of politics then it's all pretty similar in terms of Islamaphobia. Either that or they are all far right, or all centre right. However you want to cut it, it's demonstrative of racist bigotry.

I'll certainly concede that distinctions will be more noticeable on other issues.

Your claim about the terrorism in Europe did peak my interest, so I did a little digging. Not got too far yet, but here is some data from 2010-2021 showing ethno-nationalist attacks as most prevalent.

Loading…

www.consilium.europa.eu

Here the 2024 report (which includes 2021 to 2023 data) shows the same trend in terms of numbers of attacks but it does note that Jihadist attacks were most lethal with 6 deaths and 12 injured.

Loading…

www.europol.europa.eu

You should look into the malign influence of Western democracies throughout Arab regions to really get an appropriate perspective on how they operate. Consider 'blowback' from CIA sponsored groups like Al Qaeda (especially now with the situation in Syria).

You are just another one who wants to post about 'racists' and 'bigots' when another middle eastern nutjob kills a load of Europeans.

You can write posts as long and wordy as you like, but we know exactly where your sympathies lie.

PS. I don't drink.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

This is the most important factor here. Five people killed including this young boy and 200+ injured. Who cares about the religious or political affiliation of the person responsible.

Dear me. Explains a lot of why we’re in this situation.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

There is very little difference between the reactions to this event from those highlighted - not enough to indicate a spectrum of views on the subject across the right of politics. All the figures cited demonstrate racist bigotry. If they are a cross section of the right of politics then it's all pretty similar in terms of Islamaphobia. Either that or they are all far right, or all centre right. However you want to cut it, it's demonstrative of racist bigotry.

I'll certainly concede that distinctions will be more noticeable on other issues.

Your claim about the terrorism in Europe did peak my interest, so I did a little digging. Not got too far yet, but here is some data from 2010-2021 showing ethno-nationalist attacks as most prevalent.

Loading…

www.consilium.europa.eu

Here the 2024 report (which includes 2021 to 2023 data) shows the same trend in terms of numbers of attacks but it does note that Jihadist attacks were most lethal with 6 deaths and 12 injured.

Loading…

www.europol.europa.eu

You should look into the malign influence of Western democracies throughout Arab regions to really get an appropriate perspective on how they operate. Consider 'blowback' from CIA sponsored groups like Al Qaeda (especially now with the situation in Syria).

Go and live in a Muslim area. You may as well. A lot of us or our offspring will anyway if you have your way. It’s very disappointing to know your views go on today, putting it politely.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

You are just another one who wants to post about 'racists' and 'bigots' when another middle eastern nutjob kills a load of Europeans.

You can write posts as long and wordy as you like, but we know exactly where your sympathies lie.

PS. I don't drink.

How come, if you don’t mind me asking? Converting to Islam? Seriously, I’m curious. I’ve done a while recently and it’s bl00dy boring every weekend not drinking anything.