Christian Palace

[Eagleman13]

No Ritchie Blackmore, blasphemy. 😎

But to Hrolf's defence, there is a certain piousness about SOME, not all, that the Bible is the words of God, which is absolute BS, 35 contributors, over 1200 years for the OT, and the NT being decided 367bc years after the event, By an Egyptian Bishop who done what he thought was best, faith is great for those who believe, but the Bible is a comic book.

Your 1st line is sacrosanct.

 

[ex hibitionist]

Come on Hrolf - what more proof do you need. You and I both know that God can be whoever you want it to be.


View attachment 1251

I remember clearly as a young boy daubed in similar black paint also on corrugated iron located at the Whitehorse Lane End some year B.S. (Before Sainsbury's) the words 'Taylor is God'. And this was before the great Peter single-handedly ripped up Chelsea on their own patch in the FA Cup 5th round in front of the Fedora'd one sitting in the East Stand, so the predictive powers of the graffiti artist concerned were akin to the Book of Revelation, which as all scholars know follows the book of Chatterton who spookily got the other goal.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

No Ritchie Blackmore, blasphemy. 😎

But to Hrolf's defence, there is a certain piousness about SOME, not all, that the Bible is the words of God, which is absolute BS, 35 contributors, over 1200 years for the OT, and the NT being decided 367bc years after the event, By an Egyptian Bishop who done what he thought was best, faith is great for those who believe, but the Bible is a comic book.

I'm just arguing for the sake of it.

'Faith' is so absurd that it does not deserve to be argued about. It is clearly ludicrous, but for some reason, it is defended by people out of a misplaced respect for all things religious. It deserves none.

Cecil B. DeMille has a lot to answer for.

The only respect due is the respect of other people's right to believe what they like.

I own my cultural Christianity and respect the moral framework that it promoted, but that is a long long way from belief in sky fairies.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Your 1st line is sacrosanct.

He's better than Clapton.

There is the technical and then there is what you like.

If you like Clapton then great, but he ain't nothing in the world of guitar talent.

I like Ace Frehley, but there are people in pub bands who are way better.

 

[ex hibitionist]

I'm just arguing for the sake of it.

'Faith' is so absurd that it does not deserve to be argued about. It is clearly ludicrous, but for some reason, it is defended by people out of a misplaced respect for all things religious. It deserves none.

Cecil B. DeMille has a lot to answer for.

The only respect due is the respect of other people's right to believe what they like.

I own my cultural Christianity and respect the moral framework that it promoted, but that is a long long way from belief in sky fairies.

"I own my cultural Christianity and respect the moral framework that it promoted, but that is a long long way from belief in sky fairies."

A Christian theologian back in the 80s, Don Cupitt, who died at a grand old age a few months ago, advocated this idea. There are more 'atheist Christians' in the Church than many realise, and they are regarded as heretics by the theist majority. There is a group who adhere to this idea called 'the Sea of Faith' - I'm a member and have a zoom meeting once a month where these matters are discussed. I'm an agnostic though, I believe science can only take you so far and then there is the unknown which cannot be accessed. This is the void which the religious realm tries to fill, whatever answers lie here may not be attributable to a God but would be God-like to our limited minds. There is a difference between God as a being and God as a concept to identify a level above and beyond our comprehension. My attitude is summed up by saying it's not that I don't believe in God, I don't believe in prayer, whatever this unknown level is we cannot relate to it in a personal way, that's where the madness lies in my opinion.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

"I own my cultural Christianity and respect the moral framework that it promoted, but that is a long long way from belief in sky fairies."

A Christian theologian back in the 80s, Don Cupitt, who died at a grand old age a few months ago, advocated this idea. There are more 'atheist Christians' in the Church than many realise, and they are regarded as heretics by the theist majority. There is a group who adhere to this idea called 'the Sea of Faith' - I'm a member and have a zoom meeting once a month where these matters are discussed. I'm an agnostic though, I believe science can only take you so far and then there is the unknown which cannot be accessed. This is the void which the religious realm tries to fill, whatever answers lie here may not be attributable to a God but would be God-like to our limited minds. There is a difference between God as a being and God as a concept to identify a level above and beyond our comprehension. My attitude is summed up by saying it's not that I don't believe in God, I don't believe in prayer, whatever this unknown level is we cannot relate to it in a personal way, that's where the madness lies in my opinion.

I like this train of thought.

Personally, I don't believe that any kind of supreme being is necessary for creation. I do however like to keep the door open to such a possibility, albeit without any Biblical bearded bloke in the sky mumbo jumbo.
A distinction must be drawn between the Christian idea of 'God' and a scientific discussion about the theoretical possibility of the intelligent control of matter or simply the manipulation of mankind by forces unknown.
I believe that the universe has its own 'intelligence' but not in the human sense. I'd say it's more akin to a computer. However, it's just my own pet theory.
We could introduce aliens into this discussion, but that is a whole discussion in itself.

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

I remember clearly as a young boy daubed in similar black paint also on corrugated iron located at the Whitehorse Lane End some year B.S. (Before Sainsbury's) the words 'Taylor is God'. And this was before the great Peter single-handedly ripped up Chelsea on their own patch in the FA Cup 5th round in front of the Fedora'd one sitting in the East Stand, so the predictive powers of the graffiti artist concerned were akin to the Book of Revelation, which as all scholars know follows the book of Chatterton who spookily got the other goal.

There you are see, God's all over the place. I'd be surprised if Glasner's name isn't daubed on a wall in the same way after we win the Europa cup.

 

[sprites]

I'm not arguing about your right to believe something. I'm arguing about what you believe.

You are now continuing to argue for your belief. That's great, but I know you won't accept rational arguments because the religious mind only deals in faith.

If you have a single credible 'legitimate' argument for anything you believe, then let's see it.

The idea that something might be true because you can't prove otherwise is one of the illegitimate arguments one can put forward. The Spaghetti Monster scenario is about something you cannot prove is not real. So God is like the Spaghetti Monster. It's a Richard Dawkins thing.

You claim god is real. It is for you to prove.


When you're ready.

I'm baffled as to why, three pages later, we're still sitting here having the same debate. I told you many comments ago that I can't prove it. No one can. And to do so would completely take faith out of the equation...I don't really understand why you keep asking people to prove it. If that's your slam dunk...then congratulations, i guess? You won.

What I can tell you is that in 2015, after about 45 minutes of passionate prayer, my best friend (Shinai) had her ear pop open after being deaf in one ear her entire life. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

Shortly after that in 2016, a band member I played music with. His wife was completely and miraculously healed of cancer. From stage 4 no hope to complete remission. The oncologists were left speechless. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

You don't have to believe. I have no intention of convincing you. But as I'm sure you've identified and are taking advantage of, it does ruffle my feathers when people say with such certaintly and arrogance that my God isn't real, after not only walking with him every day, but seeing him work such miracles in the lives of those around me.

 

[sprites]

No Ritchie Blackmore, blasphemy. 😎

But to Hrolf's defence, there is a certain piousness about SOME, not all, that the Bible is the words of God, which is absolute BS, 35 contributors, over 1200 years for the OT, and the NT being decided 367bc years after the event, By an Egyptian Bishop who done what he thought was best, faith is great for those who believe, but the Bible is a comic book.

For me, that further validates the bible. 35 different people across different times have come to the same conclusion. If it was simply written by one person, it would be easy enough to discard it as some loony writing himself a story. But that many authors saying the same thing. That many events that fulfilled prophecies mentioned hundreds of years prior...? Nah, there's something in this.

Question: Who was Jesus in your opinion? There's no debate amongst scholars that he existed. There's more documented proof than William Shakespear. So who was Jesus?

 

[stanzerman]

Religion is a means of population control. Most religions try to tell you how to live your lives. There is one theory that Christianity was invented by the Romans as a way of controlling the bolshie Hebrews. It was much easier to beat a rebel army that 'Turned the other cheek' than one which fought back. And confesssion and forgiveness of sins no doubt was a source of spying for the roman state. Didn't Rome then invent the Pope with the aim of controlling christians worldwide. Just a thought

 

[Pikester]

I'm baffled as to why, three pages later, we're still sitting here having the same debate. I told you many comments ago that I can't prove it. No one can. And to do so would completely take faith out of the equation...I don't really understand why you keep asking people to prove it. If that's your slam dunk...then congratulations, i guess? You won.

What I can tell you is that in 2015, after about 45 minutes of passionate prayer, my best friend (Shinai) had her ear pop open after being deaf in one ear her entire life. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

Shortly after that in 2016, a band member I played music with. His wife was completely and miraculously healed of cancer. From stage 4 no hope to complete remission. The oncologists were left speechless. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

You don't have to believe. I have no intention of convincing you. But as I'm sure you've identified and are taking advantage of, it does ruffle my feathers when people say with such certaintly and arrogance that my God isn't real, after not only walking with him every day, but seeing him work such miracles in the lives of those around me.

I think a lot of people's issues with stories like this is the millions of people who have died awful, painful deaths with loads of people praying for them.
A god who chooses to heal your friend's ear but would let a baby die in agony is not a being I've got much time for, I'm afraid.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I'm baffled as to why, three pages later, we're still sitting here having the same debate. I told you many comments ago that I can't prove it. No one can. And to do so would completely take faith out of the equation...I don't really understand why you keep asking people to prove it. If that's your slam dunk...then congratulations, i guess? You won.

What I can tell you is that in 2015, after about 45 minutes of passionate prayer, my best friend (Shinai) had her ear pop open after being deaf in one ear her entire life. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

Shortly after that in 2016, a band member I played music with. His wife was completely and miraculously healed of cancer. From stage 4 no hope to complete remission. The oncologists were left speechless. No one can tell her God isn't real, after what he's done for her.

You don't have to believe. I have no intention of convincing you. But as I'm sure you've identified and are taking advantage of, it does ruffle my feathers when people say with such certaintly and arrogance that my God isn't real, after not only walking with him every day, but seeing him work such miracles in the lives of those around me.

If this is all you can offer for evidence of God, then I was right when I said that I was wasting my time.

And when some bad things happen to these people, will they blame God?

Good and bad things happen to people all the time. It's called life.

Arrogance? 'Your God'?

Like I said before. If you were talking like this about anything else, men in white coats would be visiting.

Life is amazing. It is a privilege to exist even for such a brief time. Why do you need more?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

For me, that further validates the bible. 35 different people across different times have come to the same conclusion. If it was simply written by one person, it would be easy enough to discard it as some loony writing himself a story. But that many authors saying the same thing. That many events that fulfilled prophecies mentioned hundreds of years prior...? Nah, there's something in this.

Question: Who was Jesus in your opinion? There's no debate amongst scholars that he existed. There's more documented proof than William Shakespear. So who was Jesus?

Maybe they were all as gullible as you, or perhaps, they had an agenda.

Imagine that.

The New Testament is a piece of propaganda. The resurrection was added on later for a bit of wow factor.
The Bible as a whole has been edited to remove the parts that don't fit the narrative.

All this information is freely available.

The Old Testament is a collection of stories derived from numerous much older accounts and some historical events, with God shoehorned in to explain what people did not understand and put the frighteners up them. It is mind control.

Just because something was written 2000 years ago, that does not make it any more credible.
If someone claimed to be the son of God today, they would be sectioned.

Then again, maybe Jesus was an alien. That's far more likely than him being a demigod.

 

[HKOwen]

I like this train of thought.

Personally, I don't believe that any kind of supreme being is necessary for creation. I do however like to keep the door open to such a possibility, albeit without any Biblical bearded bloke in the sky mumbo jumbo.
A distinction must be drawn between the Christian idea of 'God' and a scientific discussion about the theoretical possibility of the intelligent control of matter or simply the manipulation of mankind by forces unknown.
I believe that the universe has its own 'intelligence' but not in the human sense. I'd say it's more akin to a computer. However, it's just my own pet theory.
We could introduce aliens into this discussion, but that is a whole discussion in itself.

So if I read this correctly, you are open to the possibility of supreme entity but don't subscribe to religion or the deification of that or any entity through the platform of organised religion such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

I don't ask for proof of your belief that the universe has it's own intelligence, and I would not consider that lack of proof as some kind of win

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

So if I read this correctly, you are open to the possibility of supreme entity but don't subscribe to religion or the deification of that or any entity through the platform of organised religion such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

I don't ask for proof of your belief that the universe has it's own intelligence, and I would not consider that lack of proof as some kind of win

I can't rule it out completely, but I also can't completely rule out The Moon being made of cheese.

There is no win here. There is simply reason v blind faith. A faith that can be dismantled by anyone who rejects ignorance and cares to investigate its origins.

 

[HKOwen]

I can't rule it out completely, but I also can't completely rule out The Moon being made of cheese.

There is no win here. There is simply reason v blind faith. A faith that can be dismantled by anyone who rejects ignorance and cares to investigate its origins.

In bold, yes you can.

But since you've been gone I agree there is no man on the silver mountain.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

In bold, yes you can.

But since you've been gone I agree there is no man on the silver mountain.

No, because I only have someone else's word for it. I haven't tried to make a pizza with moon rock.

This is another example, like Dawkins' spaghetti monster. A lack of disproof is not proof and vice versa.

Of course, most of us trust NASA to tell us about The Moon, but some don't.
Some think the Moon landings were fake. Some think the Earth is flat. Some think that space itself does not exist. They are bonkers in varying degrees, but because an old book written by people ignorant of science tell us that there is an omnipotent god, that gets a free pass?

Even with reasonable proof, people still don't believe in science because they would rather believe in nonsense. Is it any wonder then that religion has so may followers? A lot of humans aren't very bright.

 

[HKOwen]

No, because I only have someone else's word for it. I haven't tried to make a pizza with moon rock.

This is another example, like Dawkins' spaghetti monster. A lack of disproof is not proof and vice versa.

Of course, most of us trust NASA to tell us about The Moon, but some don't.
Some think the Moon landings were fake. Some think the Earth is flat. Some think that space itself does not exist. They are bonkers in varying degrees, but because an old book written by people ignorant of science tell us that there is an omnipotent god, that gets a free pass?

Even with reasonable proof, people still don't believe in science because they would rather believe in nonsense. Is it any wonder then that religion has so may followers? A lot of humans aren't very bright.

You just can't help yourself having a dig can you, a shame because I agree with some of what you post.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You just can't help yourself having a dig can you, a shame because I agree with some of what you post.

I'm not having a dig at anyone. I am stating an honest opinion.

 

[ex hibitionist]

I like this train of thought.

Personally, I don't believe that any kind of supreme being is necessary for creation. I do however like to keep the door open to such a possibility, albeit without any Biblical bearded bloke in the sky mumbo jumbo.
A distinction must be drawn between the Christian idea of 'God' and a scientific discussion about the theoretical possibility of the intelligent control of matter or simply the manipulation of mankind by forces unknown.
I believe that the universe has its own 'intelligence' but not in the human sense. I'd say it's more akin to a computer. However, it's just my own pet theory.
We could introduce aliens into this discussion, but that is a whole discussion in itself.

I actually think the question 'do you believe in God?' is old hat and irrelevant. As Carl Sagan said 'it depends what you mean by God'. I think the relevant reality question today is 'do you think, life, existence and consciousness is an integral part of the universe or just an added extra, a bit of chemical steam, an epiphenomenon?'. Anyway, up the Palace! 😍