Israel v Hamas

[Spindle]

I agree we should stay out of other country's affairs to a point.

But if that country is less able to defend themselves?

What about the UN Peacekeeping mission in Bosnia in 1992?

At what point do we just sit back and watch and say that's not our problem, when we do have the power to prevent lives lost?

If we are staying out of wars, we should also not be arming Israel then and leave them to find their own military might, correct?

So you mean like Iran? You've defended them on here haven't you. Iran are the biggest sponsor of terror in the world by some margin.

 

[Penge Eagle]

How is it not a far left position?

No need to mention Trump in your response.

It might be third time lucky of asking?

 

[indianapalace85]

It might be third time lucky of asking?

I would consider myself left, but not far left.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Fair enough.

I agree with most of what you've said.

You are certainly right about what I crave being an idealist's fantasy - the reality is much harsher, right or wrong.

We just have to learn to live with the hand we are dealt.

I'm becoming increasingly more worried about the state of the world today - or maybe it's just been highlighted and exacerbated by social media and technology.

Nothing wrong with being worried about this fecked up world.....bloody world plays with nukes, conflicts all the time...if the sodding AI or drones won't get us designed flu will.

And I agree with you, all of us are manipulated by social media and technology. Evils have always been going on around the world but now we hear about some of it much more than in the past.

Orwell went to Spain to fight the fascists, but when he got there he quickly became disillusioned with the communists themselves. As individuals you can only live your own principles, whereas the outside world will just chew you up if you let it.....So many innocent people get destroyed unfairly, we are lucky that we currently live in a country....that despite its many faults....was built on reason and common law.

I think that's being eroded in record time but that's another story.

To be truly useful in life....unless you actually climb to real power....your impact in life will be local and is best focused there. That's not me saying not to have opinions as hell, we all have them on this forum and rant all the time. It's just me saying don't let what you can't control eat you up.....it isn't worth the stress.

 

[indianapalace85]

So you mean like Iran? You've defended them on here haven't you. Iran are the biggest sponsor of terror in the world by some margin.

Aside from them being bombed by Israel, then their right to defend themselves - the same right Israel declared from Hamas, at what point have I defended Iran?

I don't agree with any of their principles.

 

[Spindle]

Yeah, that. What a stupid treasonous position

 

[indianapalace85]

Nothing wrong with being worried about this fecked up world.

And I agree with you, all of us are manipulated by social media and technology. Evils have always been going on around the world but now we hear about some of it much more than in the past.

Orwell went to Spain to fight the fascists, but when he got there he quickly became disillusioned with the communists themselves. As individuals you can only live your own principles, whereas the outside world will just chew you up if you let it.....So many innocent people get destroyed unfairly, we are lucky that we currently live in a country....that despite its many faults....was built on reason and common law.

I think that's being eroded in record time but that's another story.

To be truly useful in life....unless you actually climb to real power....your impact in life will be local and is best focused there. That's not me saying not to have opinions as hell, we all have them on this forum and rant all the time. It's just me saying don't let what you can't control eat you up.....it isn't worth the stress.

Well we definitely share common ground on that.

As for the stress, hell yeah it's stressful, annoying and demoralising - but something worth fighting for is never easy.

If the whole world sits still and nobody speaks up or challenges, then we are by definition sheep that follow blindly.

I'll happily holla if it saves one life further down the line.

 

[indianapalace85]

Yeah, that. What a stupid treasonous position

We can go round in circles all day if you wish.

Or you could give it a rest. Up to you.

 

[Spiderman]

No I don't disagree.
But I think there is an unnecessary inference behind it.

The fact that the victims are white is irrelevant.
The fact that the culprits are Pakistani is irrelevant.

Because all that is proving is their skin colour - which has no relevance to the actual crimes.

Because all that will mean is that a picture of Pakistani people is being unfairly projected onto society.

When there is a school shooting in America (almost always a white American) do we say oh it's another white man?
No, we condone the issue behind it, i.e. guns.

The logic you imply is that Pakistani people are the issue - whereas the wider issue is grooming.

Not at all and you see, this is the point are tried to make earlier, I spent 3 years working in Pakistan and have some very good friends from my time there, so, no, I don’t think all Pakistani people are the issue but the facts are there. Presumably you do not believe the ethnicity of the perpetrators should have been disclosed? When they have called the girls “ WHITE trash” or tell them “ you deserve it as you are WHITE” are they being racist and should that not have been reported?

 

[indianapalace85]

Not at all and you see, this is the point are tried to make earlier, I spent 3 years working in Pakistan and have some very good friends from my time there, so, no, I don’t think all Pakistani people are the issue but the facts are there. Presumably you do not believe the ethnicity of the perpetrators should have been disclosed? When they have called the girls “ WHITE trash” or tell them “ you deserve it as you are WHITE” are they being racist and should that not have been reported?

Of course that should be reported.
Calling someone white trash is not right.
But the fact they're Pakistani is still not really relevant.
But yesterday, I discovered someone I know got banned from some internet sites for making racist jokes about black people - and he's black.
So it doesn't always tell the story.

All I ever ask for is transparency on both sides. Any and every side.

Looking at this new development on BBC today, it's saying Israel will send a negotiator in to talk with Hamas, even though they already said those terms are unacceptable... to whom?

What are these terms?

We need transparency on what exactly is being discussed from BOTH sides - and an independent facilitator to ensure both sides understand the others' terms and adhere to them.

Otherwise, all that will happen is the ceasefire will end and both sides will blame the other for breaking it again and nobody can prove anything.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Well we definitely share common ground on that.

As for the stress, hell yeah it's stressful, annoying and demoralising - but something worth fighting for is never easy.

If the whole world sits still and nobody speaks up or challenges, then we are by definition sheep that follow blindly.

I'll happily holla if it saves one life further down the line.

It won't.

The Palestinians are fecked and for many of them it's the cruel reality of where you are born and when.

World government won't happen because it requires war....and whoever beats who would never equalise themselves...it's always going to be some basstard fecking some other basstard and taking as much as possible.

What happens is far more to do with American politics than it has with an island floating half a world away. We had our power drained away, probably permanently, fighting other wars.

Personally I wouldn't want to be in Israel or Palestine. I think the future in that part of the world is very uncertain and risky.

 

[indianapalace85]

It won't.

The Palestinians are fecked and for many of them it's the cruel reality of where you are born and when.

World government won't happen because it requires war....and whoever beats who would never equalise themselves...it's always going to be some basstard fecking some other basstard and taking as much as possible.

What happens is far more to do with American politics than it has with an island floating half a world away. We had our power drained away, probably permanently, fighting other wars.

Personally I wouldn't want to be in Israel or Palestine. I think the future in that part of the world is very uncertain and risky.

It's certainly a cruel reality.

Utterly avoidable too and still is.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's certainly a cruel reality.

Utterly avoidable too and still is.

We can only watch.

And eat cake while it's still available at an affordable price.

 

[indianapalace85]

We can only watch.

And eat cake while it's still available at an affordable price.

Amen to all of that!

 

[Penge Eagle]

I would consider myself left, but not far left.

It's the far left believes that Palestine Action should not be proscribed as a terrorist group (not the centre left) as reflected in the Labour lMPs who voted against it.

Is it embarrassing to admit you're far left? 😂

 

[georgenorman]

I would consider myself left, but not far left.

Judging by your posts, I thought you must be a One Nation Tory.

 

[indianapalace85]

It's the far left believes that Palestine Action should not be proscribed as a terrorist group (not the centre left) as reflected in the Labour lMPs who voted against it.

Is it embarrassing to admit you're far left? 😂

That's a nonsense generalisation.

I even have a friend that considers himself right-wing and we have plenty of disagreements politically, but he even said the other day that it's ludicrous that they're branded terrorists.

You're pandering to your bias again. If you genuinely think these protesters are TERRORISTS, then that says a lot.

 

[indianapalace85]

Judging by your posts, I thought you must be a One Nation Tory.

14 years of lies and deceit? No thanks.

 

[Spiderman]

Of course that should be reported.
Calling someone white trash is not right.
But the fact they're Pakistani is still not really relevant.
But yesterday, I discovered someone I know got banned from some internet sites for making racist jokes about black people - and he's black.
So it doesn't always tell the story.

All I ever ask for is transparency on both sides. Any and every side.

Looking at this new development on BBC today, it's saying Israel will send a negotiator in to talk with Hamas, even though they already said those terms are unacceptable... to whom?

What are these terms?

We need transparency on what exactly is being discussed from BOTH sides - and an independent facilitator to ensure both sides understand the others' terms and adhere to them.

Otherwise, all that will happen is the ceasefire will end and both sides will blame the other for breaking it again and nobody can prove anything.

I agree but unfortunately transparency is something I doubt we will ever get, as it appears to be all about political point scoring and bias reporting.
Apologies if it appears I went off on one in my last post but, the one part of the Muslim culture that grinds my gears more than anything, is the way they treat women. Having dealt with forced marriages on a daily basis, I find it particularly difficult to stomach.

 

[indianapalace85]

I agree but unfortunately transparency is something I doubt we will ever get, as it appears to be all about political point scoring and bias reporting.
Apologies if it appears I went off on one in my last post but, the one part of the Muslim culture that grinds my gears more than anything, is the way they treat women. Having dealt with forced marriages on a daily basis, I find it particularly difficult to stomach.

I agree.

But if we're talking about treatment of women and forced marriages etc, let's not forget the amount of white men making outrageous decisions about women's bodies in Congress in America right now.

These appalling decisions are all made by white men - so not all atrocities are contained to a certain skin colour.