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US Politics

How long can you Trump fans ignore the obvious? He’s not the Messiah….

Ok you’re right wing but surely you could latch on to someone better than Trump.

Don’t you listen to his nonsensical speeches?
 
How long can you Trump fans ignore the obvious? He’s not the Messiah….

Ok you’re right wing but surely you could latch on to someone better than Trump.

Don’t you listen to his nonsensical speeches?
The Left have been ignoring the obvious since 1917.
 
That's right, crow about some election thousands of miles away to deflect from the thumping the sort of nonsense you believe in got in the elections here. Just surprised you aren't praising the election results in North Korea.
Perhaps because it was a general election in an ally, which followed the one in Canada which delivered a comparable result? Both of which have been put down to the “Trump” effect and this is the US thread.

All of which are rather more important that a series of local elections and a bye election here at a particularly unusual point in our political history. Interesting though that is.
 
Look no further than John Bolton.

Right wing hawk to the core he is aggressively but objectively criticising Trump on a daily basis. He sees him for what he is and says so without compromising on the kind of values that those who believe in right wing politics hold dear.

You find his YouTube video interviews everywhere. He must do several every day.
 
Look no further than John Bolton.

Right wing hawk to the core he is aggressively but objectively criticising Trump on a daily basis. He sees him for what he is and says so without compromising on the kind of values that those who believe in right wing politics hold dear.

You find his YouTube video interviews everywhere. He must do several every day.
I was never into his music really.
 
The Left have been ignoring the obvious since 1917.
If the 'left' had not come about, we'd still be sending our 6yo children down the mines and into the mills, we'd have no benefits for those who have need (apart from the poorhouses), there'd be no housing for those in need, no NHS.

Yet there are still those who continue to slag it off, regardless.

If you'd be happy to return to those times, good for you, Georgie Boy.

And why 1917, in particular? Not the Bolshevik revolution, surely?
 
If the 'left' had not come about, we'd still be sending our 6yo children down the mines and into the mills, we'd have no benefits for those who have need (apart from the poorhouses), there'd be no housing for those in need, no NHS.

Yet there are still those who continue to slag it off, regardless.

If you'd be happy to return to those times, good for you, Georgie Boy.

And why 1917, in particular? Not the Bolshevik revolution, surely?
Of course the Russian Revolution - that led to peasants eating their own children in the Socialist Utopia.
Of course we would not be sending children down mines if there had been no Left. It was Peel's Tory government that legislated to stop young children and females working underground.
The immense improvements in ordinary peoples' lives has come about due to Capitalism not the Left.
If the Conservatives had won the 1945 General Election there would have been an NHS - they had proposals in their manifesto for a health service that was almost identical to Labour's.
It is one of the great myths that the Left has generated progress.
 
Of course the Russian Revolution - that led to peasants eating their own children in the Socialist Utopia.
Of course we would not be sending children down mines if there had been no Left*. It was Peel's Tory government that legislated to stop young children and females working underground.
The immense improvements in ordinary peoples' lives has come about due to Capitalism not the Left.
If the Conservatives had won the 1945 General Election there would have been an NHS - they had proposals in their manifesto for a health service that was almost identical to Labour's.
It is one of the great myths that the Left has generated progress.
No, not a myth. Many of those changes you name were brought about by pressure coming from within that capitalist core and doubtless from within that enclave those exerting that pressure would be seen as traitors pandering to the wishes of the feckless poor.

* but they were. And they certainly would have continued to put profit over lives; that’s what untrammelled capitalism does. Why would you pretend otherwise?
 
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No, not a myth. Many of those changes you name were brought about by pressure coming from within that capitalist core and doubtless from within that enclave those exerting that pressure would be seen as traitors pandering to the wishes of the feckless poor.

* but they were. And they certainly would have continued to put profit over lives; that’s what untrammelled capitalism does. Why would you pretend otherwise?
Wilberforce, a Tory, did more than the Left of the time in abolishing slavery.
Untrammelled socialism, as demonstrated in the USSA, China, Cambodia etc puts their dogma over lives. Why do you think people in every Left country there has been sought to escape to capitalist countries?
 
Don’t worry, I find it highly amusing how Trump and all associated with him make it so plainly obvious how deeply unserious and unsuitable for high office he is.

And you’ve nailed your colours to his mast 🤣.

Whatever tickles your pickle Dan 👍🏻
 
Of course the Russian Revolution - that led to peasants eating their own children in the Socialist Utopia.
Of course we would not be sending children down mines if there had been no Left. It was Peel's Tory government that legislated to stop young children and females working underground.
The immense improvements in ordinary peoples' lives has come about due to Capitalism not the Left.
If the Conservatives had won the 1945 General Election there would have been an NHS - they had proposals in their manifesto for a health service that was almost identical to Labour's.
It is one of the great myths that the Left has generated progress.
Firstly, there was no 'left' to talk about in Victorian times; certainly no 'left' party, merely those who supported the poor liberating themselves from the the yoke placed there by the money makers. Any changes were brought about by those who existed within the main political parties. No doubt, as stated above, reviled for doing so by those who thought such measures would decrease profits.

Of course you are correct about the devastating cruelty of communist regimes in he past.

Do you really think the statement you so baldly make is true - really? Certainly the standard of living has increased in this country but if you think that associated improvements in living conditions and the welfare of the poor and disadvantage would have come about within a capitalist society without the promptings and fighting of those who believed in a better life for all, you are misguided.

Directly after the revolution, Churchill and the 'white' army were attempting to overthrow the infant communist regime. Did he do this in order to protect the civil liberties of those in Russia? no, it was to prevent such political thought 'infecting' the rest of Europe, including us. That is, to prevent any political thought that might (would) undermine and obstruct those who owned the wealth here - for their benefit.

The arrest and deportation of the Tolpuddle Martyrs in Dorset , as they met to organise the first trade union is testament to what lengths the money-men were prepared to go to. The fact that the TMs returned to the UK as heroes of the working classes shows us that this movement was ground - based, not the puppet of political left wingers.

Changes in living standards were brought about in this country within a mixed economy of right and left including the trade union movement, whom I suspect you revile as 'commies' or anti - freedom.

So, yes, the left has 'generated' progress. Had it been left solely to the capital men, I would argue that very little progress would have been achieved.
 

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