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Israel v Hamas

www.theguardian.com

Arab leaders endorse $53bn plan to rebuild Gaza as alternative to Trump idea

Proposal focuses on emergency relief and long-term economic development under Palestinian Authority administration
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Classic Trump move. Announce plan for Trump hotel and Costa de Gaza which forces the Arab nations to get their act together which they should have done a long time ago!

Chess while everyone is playing checkers!
 
eaglesdare said:
www.theguardian.com

Arab leaders endorse $53bn plan to rebuild Gaza as alternative to Trump idea

Proposal focuses on emergency relief and long-term economic development under Palestinian Authority administration
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Classic Trump move. Announce plan for Trump hotel and Costa de Gaza which forces the Arab nations to get their act together which they should have done a long time ago!

Chess while everyone is playing checkers!
Click to expand...
Israel won't accept it though.

A two state solution ends in Israel being outbred and it being attacked....possibly eventually defeated....always nervous and paranoid.

I don't defend what Israel have done in Gaza but if I were in charge of Israel and my point was the continued existence of Israel.....I know that only happens with a one state solution that is 85+ Jews....and always protected at a high majority level....with rules on who can own what, who can rule on what.

Jews don't have suicidal levels of empathy and aren't easily manipulated against their self interest like Europeans. Their leaders....well most of them, value their identity and aren't willing to destroy it for peace.

Israel have decided the Palestinians have to go before the demographics turn enough in America that they lose the control and financial grift they have there......that gives them...at my estimation...and probably theirs.... at most thirty years to get a greater Israel state done.

Who's gonna stop them?
 
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When is a Ceasefire, not a Ceasefire ?

There are loons running the Middle East, and as always, civilians top the death list.


"At least 330 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza overnight"
"These bombings have been preceded by a total blockage on supplies, humanitarian goods, fuel, cooking gas, and the cutting off of electricity to a Unicef supported water desalination plant," she says.
"Healthcare has been decimated throughout 15 months of war," Bollen says. (Rosalia Bollen, UN children's charity Unicef spokesperson)
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
When is a Ceasefire, not a Ceasefire ?

There are loons running the Middle East, and as always, civilians top the death list.


"At least 330 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza overnight"
"These bombings have been preceded by a total blockage on supplies, humanitarian goods, fuel, cooking gas, and the cutting off of electricity to a Unicef supported water desalination plant," she says.
"Healthcare has been decimated throughout 15 months of war," Bollen says. (Rosalia Bollen, UN children's charity Unicef spokesperson)
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What happened for Israel to do this.
It isn’t just because they can surely !
 
cryrst said:
What happened for Israel to do this.
It isn’t just because they can surely !
Click to expand...
In most political situations, i think the public only get snippets of what is really happening. All we can go on, is that something is wrong to start killing civilians again. Not just here, but in Ukraine too.
 
cryrst said:
What happened for Israel to do this.
It isn’t just because they can surely !
Click to expand...
It seemed inevitable to me.

The Netanyahu government were never serious about a permanent peace. They just used a pause to see the return of a few hostages, divert resources to the West Bank for a while, give their fighters a bit of R & R and then go again, having suspended aid and weakened the resistance.

With the eyes of the world now focused on Putin dancing with Trump in Ukraine Israel can also avoid too much scrutiny.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
October 7th happened - which apparently means Israel have free reign to genocide for as long as they see fit.

Why should they worry themselves about another few hundred dead children?
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Yup when it didn’t have to happen really did it ? Hamas are s*** bags of the highest order who will use their own kids as shields. This is beyond politics and it’s all about money and control. They are not interested in their people at all. Why are you
 
CPFCSaturn said:
October 7th happened - which apparently means Israel have free reign to genocide for as long as they see fit.

Why should they worry themselves about another few hundred dead children?
Click to expand...

Israel clearly have the capability to literally commit a genocide and obviously haven't. Maybe Hamas should return the hostages and commit to peace? But they won't. Any killing of civilians is purely on them. I'm sure you feel Hamas killing Jewish children is fine.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Israel clearly have the capability to literally commit a genocide and obviously haven't. Maybe Hamas should return the hostages and commit to peace? But they won't. Any killing of civilians is purely on them. I'm sure you feel Hamas killing Jewish children is fine.
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There is sufficient opposition within Israel to stop an out and out genocide let alone the impact on world opinion. So we are seeing it by a thousand cuts.

Hamas won’t just return the remaining hostages. They are the only bargaining chips they have. No one defends terrorism but they do defend the innocents caught up in it, wherever they live.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
There is sufficient opposition within Israel to stop an out and out genocide let alone the impact on world opinion. So we are seeing it by a thousand cuts.

Hamas won’t just return the remaining hostages. They are the only bargaining chips they have. No one defends terrorism but they do defend the innocents caught up in it, wherever they live.
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Israel could make a car park out of Gaza in two hours. There is a reason this bombing happened and I doubt it was about hostages not returned. Among the assumed 300 dead ( remember the hospital story, 100s dead apparently but that was a lie) were Hamas hiding amongst the ‘innocent’ setting up some attack somewhere. You reap what you sow!
 
I was talking to my Kurdish barber about the current situation in Syria and it reminded me that the Kurds have faced oppression, displacement and are stateless. Historic enemies include Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria, plus ISIS and other Islamist militia. I can't remember many large gatherings held in Western cities to support the Kurds or protests against their enemies like we have seen with the Palestinians. I wonder what the difference is?
 
Penge Eagle said:
I was talking to my Kurdish barber about the current situation in Syria and it reminded me that the Kurds have faced oppression, displacement and are stateless. Historic enemies include Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria, plus ISIS and other Islamist militia. I can't remember many large gatherings held in Western cities to support the Kurds or protests against their enemies like we have seen with the Palestinians. I wonder what the difference is?
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They have been receiving a lot of US money apparently, and are about to do a deal to become part of a new Syria - according to the news piece I saw last night. Quite interesting - as I'd never heard of serious large scale, continuing US aid for them. I hope it was true. As usual, the Kurdish region has most of the oil. Again, I don't remember being told any of that before
 
"Aid" comes in lots of forms. From dumping hazardous materials to weapons. It would be interesting just to clarify what Aid has been given, but often we're not privvy to such details
 
cryrst said:
Israel could make a car park out of Gaza in two hours. There is a reason this bombing happened and I doubt it was about hostages not returned. Among the assumed 300 dead ( remember the hospital story, 100s dead apparently but that was a lie) were Hamas hiding amongst the ‘innocent’ setting up some attack somewhere. You reap what you sow!
Click to expand...
That the lack of returns is an excuse and not a reason is pretty obvious.

The real reason is, in my opinion, as obvious. There was never any intention for a lasting peace. It was merely a pause, which Israel used for its own purposes. They have their objective and won’t stop until it’s complete. Trying to manage world opinion whilst they do it is just a tactic. Using the Ukrainian situation as a smokescreen that diverts attention helps them achieve that.

Where the Palestinians will end up is unclear. Maybe some will remain in Gaza under Israeli control whilst others will be in refugee camps around the region. What’s clear to me is that the Israelis intend to create a Greater Israel which includes both Gaza and the West Bank. Whether they will stop there is another question that won’t be answered in my lifetime.
 
cryrst said:
Yup when it didn’t have to happen really did it ? Hamas are s*** bags of the highest order who will use their own kids as shields. This is beyond politics and it’s all about money and control. They are not interested in their people at all. Why are you
Click to expand...

I'd suggest a more appropriate question would be to ask why you're not interested in children being killed in their thousands.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Israel clearly have the capability to literally commit a genocide and obviously haven't. Maybe Hamas should return the hostages and commit to peace? But they won't. Any killing of civilians is purely on them. I'm sure you feel Hamas killing Jewish children is fine.
Click to expand...

Hamas should indeed commit to peace, but I think that's an unlikely course of action for a terrorist group - the notion that if they don't, Israel therefore have license to massacre and displace as many civilians as the want is obviously a nonsensical one.

That you'd concluded from a single post that I must think killing of Jewish children is fine is not only a pretty vile accusation, it's childishly stupid.

I think the killing of all children is wrong - I'm perfectly comfortable condemning both the actions of Hamas on October 7th, and the actions of the Israeli military since.

As above, a more appropriate reflection is to consider why you are not?
 
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