Interesting (?) Political stuff...

[Stirlingsays]

There are still huge swathes of the population, many of whom are pensioners, who still think we live in a country where if you just work hard and put some money away each month, you can own a home and raise a family and live a comfortable life, because that's what they did.

The bar has completely moved, and rather than accept that, we societally tie ourselves in knots about spending habits and 'hard work', all to appease the egos of a generation who got to play an entirely different game.

I think there's some truth in that.....But let's start with the fact that 3 out of 4 pensioners aren't in this money bags situation whether by assets or incomes. Of those you hear making the kind of complaints you refer to some of them are just a bit thick and set in their ways to notice or care about the reduced ladders available compared to their time.

Also, while they lived in better times there were never roads paved with gold....plenty of people worked hard and did all the right things and got nowhere in life....bad luck, events out of their control, whatever it was....same as it ever was. Life owes no one anything and the luck of life's dice affects both the talented and the feckless.

Increasingly the key indicator to a young person's financial future is how much their dad is worth - not their education, not their job, not how hard they work and certainly not how many coffees they buy.

Yes, but in truth that has always been the way.....the only difference is that in the modern day people are lied to about their station in life, much more than they were in the past. They grow up being in nonsense Disney-land concepts like egalitarianism.

But it's undeniable that social mobility has reduced significantly.....again, the system has been designed that way.

But it's also worth highlighting that the wealthy pensioner who owns 4 buy-to-lets is very much 'guilty' of a wealth transfer from ordinary working families, who in previous generations would have owned their home - I'm not necessarily blaming them for this, but it's relevant if we're talking about growing wealth inequality.

It's true, but as you and I know, that's the system and the real blame lies with the elites who create it.

People will follow incentives like sharks follow blood in the water.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I think there's some truth in that.....But let's start with the fact that 3 out of 4 pensioners aren't in this money bags situation whether by assets or incomes. Of those you hear making the kind of complaints you refer to some of them are just a bit thick and set in their ways to notice or care about the reduced ladders available compared to their time.

Also, while they lived in better times there were never roads paved with gold....plenty of people worked hard and did all the right things and got nowhere in life....bad luck, events out of their control, whatever it was....same as it ever was. Life owes no one anything and the luck of life's dice affects both the talented and the feckless.



Yes, but in truth that has always been the way.....the only difference is that in the modern day people are lied to about their station in life, much more than they were in the past. They grow up being in nonsense Disney-land concepts like egalitarianism.

But it's undeniable that social mobility has reduced significantly.....again, the system has been designed that way.


It's true, but as you and I know, that's the system and the real blame lies with the elites who create it.

People will follow incentives like sharks follow blood in the water.

3 out of 4 aren't millionaires, sure. I'm not sure what the distribution looks like that for that 75% in all honestly, but I'd be pretty confident they are still amongst the wealthiest demographic in the country - if you own a £800k house outright, you're still doing alright!

Not suggesting any roads paved with gold, but there are a great many statistical measures which will tell you it was a better deal.

Of course a rich family was always a big leg up, but there was also far more social mobility - if you didn't have the rich dad, you still had a chance to work your way out of it. As you acknowledge; social mobility is considerably lower than it was.

Again, none of this is to suggest pensioners have had it easy or haven't had to work hard for what they have - of course they have. My point is that the same application of hard work now would not yield anywhere near the same results.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Well that's how an average works!

Do you think if someone who turns 21 today works for the next 45+ years they'd have the same possibilities to save and accrue wealth?

Who knows what the future holds? All I can say is that leaving school in the mid-70s with no qualifications and earning £26 a week things weren't that rosy then either.

 

[Stirlingsays]

3 out of 4 aren't millionaires, sure. I'm not sure what the distribution looks like that for that 75% in all honestly, but I'd be pretty confident they are still amongst the wealthiest demographic in the country - if you own a £800k house outright, you're still doing alright!

So what? If people worked hard and made good decisions then punishing them for it sounds like communism. We all know the difference between honest gains and when someone's wealth goes far beyond the norm...Doing alright is what we actually want.

Not suggesting any roads paved with gold, but there are a great many statistical measures which will tell you it was a better deal.

Not disputed.....the past was better in many metrics.

Of course a rich family was always a big leg up, but there was also far more social mobility - if you didn't have the rich dad, you still had a chance to work your way out of it. As you acknowledge; social mobility is considerably lower than it was.

Yep, Grammar schools were a good concept if the original vision had been kept to....but the middle class were allowed to game the system far too much......they worked better in the past but still the decision to ban them was unfortunate.

Again, none of this is to suggest pensioners have had it easy or haven't had to work hard for what they have - of course they have. My point is that the same application of hard work now would not yield anywhere near the same results.

Not disputed......liberalism both social and neo has ruled post WW2 (much more so once the war generation died off) and while it had some initial successes (mainly technological) has ultimately resulted in the exploitation of its own youth....A generational vampiric system that's doomed to failure. I've made that point many times over the years....In fact seemingly the only actual progress is technological progress, which itself can be a double edge sword sometimes.

The famous quote is true: 'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in'.

The social movements to disconnect families and emphasize personal success and entitlements over family and nation are ruinous for societies within a couple of generations.

 

[Badger11]

I see the government has announced that the Civil Service will be recruiting 10,000 new staff err.. I mean that the NHS will be sacking 10,000 people.

I have no problem with abolishing NHS England, it's performance has been abysmal. I am cynical that there will be genuine job cuts. My guess is that many of these roles will just be absorbed by the Civil Service and off they merrily go.

I hope I am wrong and that the NHS gets the much needed management revamp Starmer talks about. I will be happy to give credit if he does.

 

[cryrst]

Well that's how an average works!

Do you think if someone who turns 21 today works for the next 45+ years they'd have the same possibilities to save and accrue wealth?

Are you suggesting they wouldn’t have a chance of that end because effort will play a part. We are in the middle of an
“I deserve, because” society and until that mental notion is put back in its place you may well be correct !

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Are you suggesting they wouldn’t have a chance of that end because effort will play a part. We are in the middle of an
“I deserve, because” society and until that mental notion is put back in its place you may well be correct !

You are perfectly demonstrating some of the attitudes I describe above.

 

[Badger11]

Triple-jobbing civil servant held full-time roles across Whitehall

A new fraud report published by the Cabinet Office detailed how the individual had twice held three roles in three Whitehall departments.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Badger11]

Triple-jobbing civil servant held full-time roles across Whitehall

A new fraud report published by the Cabinet Office detailed how the individual had twice held three roles in three Whitehall departments.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Either this guy was incredibly hard working holding down 3 jobs or......

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1900822712924213413

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

There is an "overdiagnosis" of mental health conditions with "too many people being written off", Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said.
Streeting told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme that the welfare system had to be "sustainable", as he defended the government's upcoming reforms aimed at cutting the benefits bill. (BBC website 16.3.25)

I would agree with a lot of what he says. However, he is not a Mental Health expert (and neither am I)
And it seems a lot of MP's have been getting 'additional assistance' with their Mental Health, again at the expense of the tax-paying public.

"Mental health charity Mind has issued wellbeing advice and support to all 650 MPs sitting in Westminster and their staff, after a number of parliamentarians revealed the impact Brexit is having on their health​

The charity’s advice comes after a number of parliamentarians have spoken out about the effects Brexit is having on their health. Conservative Huw Merriman revealed that he has seen significant weight loss, and Andrew Percy, who represents Brigg and Goole, said that he recently sought refuge in a cupboard to escape the turmoil in Westminster." (April 2019)

 

[PalazioVecchio]

The Coming British Civil War

Incredibly chilling to listen to. And almost nothing I can disagree with.

the voice of this Lady is prescient. I wish she was wrong.

 

[steeleye20]

Labour should be looking at their own mental health.

The country did not vote for Thatcherism.

Foreign ownership of the UK well over 50% after 45 years of sell-offs.

It's not British.

😎

 

[ASCPFC]

There is an "overdiagnosis" of mental health conditions with "too many people being written off", Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said.
Streeting told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme that the welfare system had to be "sustainable", as he defended the government's upcoming reforms aimed at cutting the benefits bill. (BBC website 16.3.25)

I would agree with a lot of what he says. However, he is not a Mental Health expert (and neither am I)
And it seems a lot of MP's have been getting 'additional assistance' with their Mental Health, again at the expense of the tax-paying public.

"Mental health charity Mind has issued wellbeing advice and support to all 650 MPs sitting in Westminster and their staff, after a number of parliamentarians revealed the impact Brexit is having on their health​

The charity’s advice comes after a number of parliamentarians have spoken out about the effects Brexit is having on their health. Conservative Huw Merriman revealed that he has seen significant weight loss, and Andrew Percy, who represents Brigg and Goole, said that he recently sought refuge in a cupboard to escape the turmoil in Westminster." (April 2019)

Not only Brexit though - there's also Trump. How can they handle everyday tasks without crying? I mean Brexit and Trump they're all prevailing aren't they? How can anyone cope, frankly?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Not only Brexit though - there's also Trump. How can they handle everyday tasks without crying? I mean Brexit and Trump they're all prevailing aren't they? How can anyone cope, frankly?

I thought he was just referring to the Labour membership.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

There is an "overdiagnosis" of mental health conditions with "too many people being written off", Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said.
Streeting told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme that the welfare system had to be "sustainable", as he defended the government's upcoming reforms aimed at cutting the benefits bill. (BBC website 16.3.25)

I would agree with a lot of what he says. However, he is not a Mental Health expert (and neither am I)
And it seems a lot of MP's have been getting 'additional assistance' with their Mental Health, again at the expense of the tax-paying public.

"Mental health charity Mind has issued wellbeing advice and support to all 650 MPs sitting in Westminster and their staff, after a number of parliamentarians revealed the impact Brexit is having on their health​

The charity’s advice comes after a number of parliamentarians have spoken out about the effects Brexit is having on their health. Conservative Huw Merriman revealed that he has seen significant weight loss, and Andrew Percy, who represents Brigg and Goole, said that he recently sought refuge in a cupboard to escape the turmoil in Westminster." (April 2019)

Streeting is a weird little Tory.

Perfect example of everything wrong with our political system - bloke like that could claim to represent any party and you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Two cheeks.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Streeting is a weird little Tory.

Perfect example of everything wrong with our political system - bloke like that could claim to represent any party and you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Two cheeks.

It's a good point.

He's a Blairite essentially and thus a centralist.....He could have existed in a Sunak post quite easily.

There are careerists on both main parties.....lots of them are interchangeable....the famous uniparty meme.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

indeed , most politicians are careerist. In that they don't seek to help the population , quite as much as they help themselves.
When you see a party "take a wobble" in the news, you'll see one or two MP's happily switch to the party most likely to win the next election.

Phrases that could be used are : "feathering one's nest", "Looking after yourself", "helping yourself",...."snouts in the trough",....etc, etc 😀

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

indeed , most politicians are careerist. In that they don't seek to help the population , quite as much as they help themselves.
When you see a party "take a wobble" in the news, you'll see one or two MP's happily switch to the party most likely to win the next election.

Phrases that could be used are : "feathering one's nest", "Looking after yourself", "helping yourself",...."snouts in the trough",....etc, etc 😀

Possibly worthy of insertion in "Sayings You Don't Hear Anymore" thread.

 

[Matov]

Streeting is a weird little Tory.

Perfect example of everything wrong with our political system - bloke like that could claim to represent any party and you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Two cheeks.

And the next Prime Minister. Only a matter of time.