War in Ukraine

[DanH]

The EU have had years to initiate peace talks. The moment Trump gets into office and initiates peace talks there is outrage.

Colors well and truly shown. If they had any left to show after the last couple of years. They have had their chance. But no interest in saving lives it's all about money.

If trump gets this done he should be getting the nobel peace prize. He also deescalated north Korea when he took office back in 2016.

Just absolute bonkers. Post after post of bonkers from you on here.

Have you forgotten who invaded who in the first place? No lives would have been lost whatsoever if there was no invasion.

And Trump has only managed to speak to Russia because they’ve already signalled that they’re willing to give in to most of their demands, and exclude Ukraine from having any say.

If the ‘EU’ (not sure why they are to blame here) had indicated they were willing to roll over and have their tummy tickled by Putin too the war would have ended ages ago.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Just absolute bonkers. Post after post of bonkers from you on here.

Have you forgotten who invaded who in the first place? No lives would have been lost whatsoever if there was no invasion.

And Trump has only managed to speak to Russia because they’ve already signalled that they’re willing to give in to most of their demands, and exclude Ukraine from having any say.

If the ‘EU’ (not sure why they are to blame here) had indicated they were willing to roll over and have their tummy tickled by Putin too the war would have ended ages ago.

And if the CIA hadn't helped overthrow their government then Russia wouldn't have entered Crimea and this whole thing wouldn't have started in 2022.....We can all do that one.

I don't believe Trump's administration is excluding Ukraine from a peace deal.....that's just not what's happening. What they are doing is finding out with Russia where they can agree with them in terms of a settlement.....This is about the extent of future American involvement. Ukraine and Europe will get to decide what they want to do afterwards.

Isn't this bleeding obvious?

There seems to be this lack of hearing going on or something like a delayed reaction.....Trump has been saying he wanted out of this war for years....He won the election, that means that American involvement will be coming to an end.

 

[Matov]

Wow you must be privvy to some sensational evidence. Mind telling us the source?

Well this is a start, dating back to 2019...

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/766579412/what-to-know-about-the-ukrainian-company-at-the-heart-of-trumps-biden-allegation

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

And if the CIA hadn't helped overthrow their government then Russia wouldn't have entered Crimea and this whole thing wouldn't have started in 2022.....We can all do that one.

I don't believe Trump's administration is excluding Ukraine from a peace deal.....that's just not what's happening. What they are doing is finding out with Russia where they can agree with them in terms of a settlement.....This is about the extent of future American involvement. Ukraine and Europe will get to decide what they want to do afterwards.

Isn't this bleeding obvious?

There seems to be this lack of hearing going on or something like a delayed reaction.....Trump has been saying he wanted out of this war for years....He won the election, that means that American involvement will be coming to an end.

You constantly make the assertion that the CIA were behind the Euromaidan protests and the overthrow of the Russian leaning President but it’s untrue. The people protested because he refused to implement the closer ties to the EU that had been passed by the Parliament and it was them who dismissed him. He bowed to Moscow and was dismissed. Any role that Washington played was minor. Supportive words and encouragement to the protestors at most.

Viktor Yanukovych - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't know why this has to be said again and again.

Ok, for many years prior to 2014 America had been involved in Ukraine, pumping billions into NGOs and pro western and anti Russian groups....All for the purpose of inching Ukraine away from its Russian influence and into theirs. The 5 billion isn't denied and people can check up on it.

As for proof of US involvement and meddling in Ukrainian politics to manipulate their state to US aims....Well, this was reported back in 2014 on the BBC itself.

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Yes. Bias confirmation.

Repeating an inaccuracy doesn’t turn it into an accuracy.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I don't know why this has to be said again and again.

Ok, for many years prior to 2014 America had been involved in Ukraine, pumping billions into NGOs and pro western and anti Russian groups....All for the purpose of inching Ukraine away from its Russian influence and into theirs. The 5 billion isn't denied and people can check up on it.

As for proof of US involvement and meddling in Ukrainian politics to manipulate their state to US aims....Well, this was reported back in 2014 on the BBC itself.

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

Provision of support for organisations that politically align with your own ideals when an authoritarian regime like Russia is directly interfering is hardly unusual. It’s the minimum to be expected. It’s not though direct interference. It’s just helping such organisations to withstand the battering they get from those who want them gone. It was the people and their Parliament who acted. Alone!

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Repeating an inaccuracy doesn’t turn it into an accuracy.

Nor does repeating a denial.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Nor does repeating a denial.

I explained why it was inaccurate. You just repeated the claim. Who is in denial?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Provision of support for organisations that politically align with your own ideals when an authoritarian regime like Russia is directly interfering is hardly unusual. It’s the minimum to be expected. It’s not though direct interference. It’s just helping such organisations to withstand the battering they get from those who want them gone. It was the people and their Parliament who acted. Alone!

Of course a policy of inching Ukraine away from Russia via a wallet is direct interference, otherwise it's just wasting money.

Putin warned and warned against this....You don't have to be a fan of Russia to see that the US nor the west had any business in Ukraine......Yet we were balls deep there.

If Russia had done this to this level here or in America you would have been screaming about it.....In fact you were screaming about even the hoax of it.

Ukraine was a border country with mixed loyalties that had voted in a marginally pro Russian government. What we did has been a disaster for Ukraine.

People can read what Nuland was saying and directly see the truth.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I explained why it was inaccurate. You just repeated the claim. Who is in denial?

You are when you'd rather risk handing over your details to a Chinese organisation just so you don't have to use an American alternative. Still, carry on if it's your choice.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You are when you'd rather risk handing over your details to a Chinese organisation just so you don't have to use an American alternative. Still, carry on if it's your choice.

That wasn’t the matter under discussion. It was the difference between misinformation originating from places like China and the way newspapers spin stories. You appear to conflate them. I don’t.

 

[eaglesdare]

Just absolute bonkers. Post after post of bonkers from you on here.

Have you forgotten who invaded who in the first place? No lives would have been lost whatsoever if there was no invasion.

And Trump has only managed to speak to Russia because they’ve already signalled that they’re willing to give in to most of their demands, and exclude Ukraine from having any say.

If the ‘EU’ (not sure why they are to blame here) had indicated they were willing to roll over and have their tummy tickled by Putin too the war would have ended ages ago.

I have not forgotten who invaded who here. I don't care at this point the reasons or who is to blame. I only care about ending the war and having peace. Isint that what we all want? Or are you happy to let this conflict go further and loose more lives and a potential for nuclear? I for one would much rather peace than that would you not?

Egos are costing lives. They need to be put aside here. The EU seemed to have no interest in peace the last few years. Only now that Trump has bypassed them they decide to have an "emergency meeting".

Life is all about compromise. And the only way to end this ridiculous war will be through compromise.

I just want peace. Do you? Am I really "Bonkers" for wanting peace? I don't understand the issue here unless you want war to continue?

 

[Teddy Eagle]

That wasn’t the matter under discussion. It was the difference between misinformation originating from places like China and the way newspapers spin stories. You appear to conflate them. I don’t.

But unfortunately you don't decide the parameters of any thread. Once again, who stands to gain the most from this "misinformation"? A daily newspaper or the government of another country which isn't known for being open and honest?

 

[DanH]

I have not forgotten who invaded who here. I don't care at this point the reasons or who is to blame. I only care about ending the war and having peace. Isint that what we all want? Or are you happy to let this conflict go further and loose more lives and a potential for nuclear? I for one would much rather peace than that would you not?

Egos are costing lives. They need to be put aside here. The EU seemed to have no interest in peace the last few years. Only now that Trump has bypassed them they decide to have an "emergency meeting".

Life is all about compromise. And the only way to end this ridiculous war will be through compromise.

I just want peace. Do you? Am I really "Bonkers" for wanting peace? I don't understand the issue here unless you want war to continue?

So what if the peace deal was all on Ukraine’s and Europe’s terms instead? Still want it then?

You’re basically advocating for the school bully to get the weaker kid’s lunch just to stop the bully punching him for it. And then be congratulated because you stopped the punching.

Everyone wants peace. No one wanted this invasion or any killing in the first place. But you can’t bend over and give Russia everything they wanted in the first place. Especially not when it leaves Ukraine f*cked and the rest of Europe far less safe.

 

[eaglesdare]

So what if the peace deal was all on Ukraine’s and Europe’s terms instead? Still want it then?

You’re basically advocating for the school bully to get the weaker kid’s lunch just to stop the bully punching him for it. And then be congratulated because you stopped the punching.

Everyone wants peace. No one wanted this invasion or any killing in the first place. But you can’t bend over and give Russia everything they wanted in the first place. Especially not when it leaves Ukraine f*cked and the rest of Europe far less safe.

Yes. If the deal can be agreed. It's a peace deal. War over and lives are saved.

I don't see the issue here?

 

[Stirlingsays]

So what if the peace deal was all on Ukraine’s and Europe’s terms instead? Still want it then?

You’re basically advocating for the school bully to get the weaker kid’s lunch just to stop the bully punching him for it. And then be congratulated because you stopped the punching.

Everyone wants peace. No one wanted this invasion or any killing in the first place. But you can’t bend over and give Russia everything they wanted in the first place. Especially not when it leaves Ukraine f*cked and the rest of Europe far less safe.

This is like choosing to enter a horrible chess position against an opponent with advantages over you and then complaining when the result ends badly.

Here's a clip from ten years ago before the media fully fell in line warning about Ukraine and the problems that were coming.....all ignored.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yes. If the deal can be agreed. It's a peace deal. War over and lives are saved.

I don't see the issue here?

Yeah, but we must understand....When it comes to Ukraine's borders, Dan and Corny are hard core nationalists.

 

[DanH]

Yes. If the deal can be agreed. It's a peace deal. War over and lives are saved.

I don't see the issue here?

No issue at all if that is truthful. Your posts on here have been consistently pro-Russian/anti-Ukraine.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Of course a policy of inching Ukraine away from Russia via a wallet is direct interference, otherwise it's just wasting money.

Putin warned and warned against this....You don't have to be a fan of Russia to see that the US nor the west had any business in Ukraine......Yet we were balls deep there.

If Russia had done this to this level here or in America you would have been screaming about it.....In fact you were screaming about even the hoax of it.

Ukraine was a border country with mixed loyalties that had voted in a marginally pro Russian government. What we did has been a disaster for Ukraine.

People can read what Nuland was saying and directly see the truth.

Ukraine became a sovereign state when the Soviet Union collapsed. Something Putin has never accepted. A clear majority of the Ukrainian people approved of that change and showed their desire to build ties with the west and not to return to their previous status. Helping them was, and is, providing support, not interference. Putin is who is interfering with the rights of a freed people to remain free via self determination.

Only in the Russian speaking east and Crimea was there any desire to resurrect ties to Moscow and that was by far not universal. You can speak Russian but think and bleed Ukrainian.