Crystal Palace vs. Newcastle match thread

[Teddy Eagle]

I’ve got my knitting ready.

Jumpers for goalposts?

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Everyone, Keep calm

 

[doombear]

Yes he caught my eye to. Looks to have a good left foot and some pace. Last time i saw a player with similar ability was when Olise first started playing for us. Osorio possibly has not got that killer touch Olise has but i think we have a player that will be an asset going forward.

...at least for this season. He'll be back in Denmark or sold by the Danes to another club if we get relegated.

 

[Willo]

...at least for this season. He'll be back in Denmark or sold by the Danes to another club if we get relegated.

Midtyjlland, the club from whom we signed Sorloth.

 

[Rainforest]

How can Sage has kept Osorio behind JSL and Nketiah in the pecking order? Our only bright spot in the game. We have now seen over and over that our defence is not up for it, but still the same set-up. Please take away the captainsbind from Adam W, play with a present midfield and I would like to see Mateta/Osorio on top. Spurs and Liverpool up next in PL, after hopefully a B-side in the Carabou Cup midweek.

Same question why he kept Lerma out of tbe Europa squad. As for Osorio, having seen videos of his goals, I think he will do a better job upfront.

 

[doombear]

After the optimism from Thursday's performance, it was doubly disappointing to perform so poorly and lose so easily against a bang average Newcastle.

To me it evidenced the theory that the European teams we play against are not as strong as a typical Premier League outfit.

I came away from the game both angry and frustrated by what I had just seen. Starting with ' off the pitch '. I don't have any time for all the pre match antics, so rarely arrive until a few minutes before kick off. The quality of the stadium catering offerings, and the service provided mean that I never purchase anything - but that's been the case for many years now. Then we come to the atmosphere....it's terrible.
Like them or not, the HF made noise and gave the club an identity that set us apart. Now we are just another soulless Premier League club.

On the pitch, what really matters, is really concerning. While I think the back three of Canvot, Disasi and Richards is not a foundation for success, what's happening around them is making them look more vulnerable . Wing backs pushed too high up the pitch allowing the opposition to run in behind. A midfield that has no specialist defensive player that can sit in front of the back three and offer them a level of protection.

Up top we have a striker that can only play for an hour. His back up, you know the one we paid £50m for, is largely ineffective but is now injured anyway. Sarr looks like he's rather be doing anything but playing for the club that pays his wages. Nketiah....well, he's just marking time until his contract runs down and we sell him off at a loss.

I think what we are seeing is a sort of ' Perfect Storm '. I want Sage to succeed but I don't think he will. I've seen every Palace game this season and not once have I come away thinking we are on the right track. His tactics won't prevail in the Premier League and I highly doubt he has either the will or the ability to radically change them. I'm also one of those on here that think the transfer window flattered to deceive. Look at it this way - we effectively paid £35m for Dwight McNeill - how mad is that ?? Parish and Hobbs ( sounds like a firm of solicitors ) are directly accountable. Hobbs should be out of the door asap.

I will continue to support Sage, but as previously stated on other threads, I think that support is in vain.

I wanted Sage to succeed but have come to the conclusion that he doesn't have the players to do so with the system he wants to play.

As you say whilst the back 3 on show isn't a foundation for success, it wasn't solely down to them on Sunday. In fact, the first goal was well worked by Newcastle - simple and direct. With most of our players drawn to our right hand side Hall, in acres of space was able to switch play to our left where, ironically. for once, Mitchell was in a defensive position but far to far away to do anything to stop their player receiving the ball and passing the ball past him to Murphy. It seemed to me Murphy had been Mitchell's man to mark but he left him so as to try and close down the player Hall passed to, leaving Canvot suddenly having to come across to mark Murphy. Unfortunately, Murphy received and crossed the ball in virtually one movement before Canvot could get the block in. I don't blame Canvot for that. It was an excellent bit of work by Murphy and luckily for them his cross proved to be inch-perfect for Osula.

As for the second goal, the less said the better, other than the midfield let the defenders down.

If Sage doesn't change tack to a system better suited to the players at his disposal, then he's doomed IMO. We need a midfield 3 so as to beef up protection for the defence.

I was very angry as well as frustrated after yesterday's match and, for the first time this season, wanted Sage out pronto. On reflection, I still believe he'll have to go for the simple reason, I don't think he'll change his system to match his resources. Even if he did change system appropriately, we'll still struggle given the overall quality of the resources at his disposal.

 

[ex hibitionist]

The funny thing is for the first 15 minutes of the second half Newcastle played Sage ball, they were over us like a rash winning possession high up and if we did intercept the ball we could not string more than two passes together. We just looked weak and inferior, last half hour our interplay going forward improved, we competed for the ball better, but the final pass was always a let down, which has often been the case this season. I can't see us getting anything from our next two and fear that will be it for Sage - knowing Parrish I don't think he'll go for Thomas Frank, we'd take 17th place now, I'll look at the odds and have a few quid on Dyche. And forget Europe this season, and put the kids out v Fulham and see if we can rattle Spurs to playing like they did first six games. Feel sorry for Sage, not dealt a good hand and the Thursday Sunday thing doesn't help, but he needed to pick a strong side at Besiktas after the Brighton debacle.

 

[Willo]

The funny thing is for the first 15 minutes of the second half Newcastle played Sage ball, they were over us like a rash winning possession high up and if we did intercept the ball we could not string more than two passes together. We just looked weak and inferior, last half hour our interplay going forward improved, we competed for the ball better, but the final pass was always a let down, which has often been the case this season. I can't see us getting anything from our next two and fear that will be it for Sage - knowing Parrish I don't think he'll go for Thomas Frank, we'd take 17th place now, I'll look at the odds and have a few quid on Dyche. And forget Europe this season, and put the kids out v Fulham and see if we can rattle Spurs to playing like they did first six games. Feel sorry for Sage, not dealt a good hand and the Thursday Sunday thing doesn't help, but he needed to pick a strong side at Besiktas after the Brighton debacle.

At Brentford he lost 8 of his first 10 games in the Championship after succeeding Dean Smith.Frank 'Took up the reins' when they were 7th after 12 games, they finished that season 11th.

 

[ASCPFC]

Clearly the Newcastle central defenders have no pace. Yet we didn't press them.
Clearly all their attacks came from Hall and Barnes down Khalaili's channel. Yet we never countered it.

Two things I'm blaming the manager for. Two pretty obvious things.

 

[Den1923]

Sorry. Are you saying you think Sage has done the best possible job and no manager could have conceded fewer goals or have more points? I didn’t say we’d have won every game just maybe not be the worst defence in the division

Come on let's be honest with ourselves, we sold our best defenders and never replaced them with quality. instead Parish has relied on out of contracts and loan players who lack experience. On average we have conceded two or more goals per game for the last 16/17 EPL games which started long before sage arrived. our current defence lacks pace, is unable to defend high balls especially at the back post, they try to play our from the back but because they lack skill and pace often play themselves in to trouble and when they do not, they then pass it out poorly usually to the opposition so the pressure builds on our goal all over again. We also do not have a dominant CB who controls the back line or is a threat at set pieces. Replacing Sage is not going to change things if the players the incoming Manager has to choose from are not up to the job!

 

[dreamwaverider]

I wonder if the fact our shareholders are looking to sell has impacted on the club overall? I will be very surprised if any more work is carried out on the new stand from now on.

 

[park the bus]

Come on let's be honest with ourselves, we sold our best defenders and never replaced them with quality. instead Parish has relied on out of contracts and loan players who lack experience. On average we have conceded two or more goals per game for the last 16/17 EPL games which started long before sage arrived. our current defence lacks pace, is unable to defend high balls especially at the back post, they try to play our from the back but because they lack skill and pace often play themselves in to trouble and when they do not, they then pass it out poorly usually to the opposition so the pressure builds on our goal all over again. We also do not have a dominant CB who controls the back line or is a threat at set pieces. Replacing Sage is not going to change things if the players the incoming Manager has to choose from are not up to the job!

Yes, the problems pre-date Sage, we were conceding even with Lacroix and Munoz in the side during Glasner's final months. Sage has just continued what his predecessor started... Many said that an experienced centre half was a must buy in the close season; Parish thought he could chance it with frees and loans, unfortunately for him it has backfired badly and if he wants to secure his investment and Premiership status and all that goes with it he will have to fork out in January. Given Hobbs record I have little faith that the right sort of leadership character will be found.

 

[Eaglecoops]

Yes, the problems pre-date Sage, we were conceding even with Lacroix and Munoz in the side during Glasner's final months. Sage has just continued what his predecessor started... Many said that an experienced centre half was a must buy in the close season; Parish thought he could chance it with frees and loans, unfortunately for him it has backfired badly and if he wants to secure his investment and Premiership status and all that goes with it he will have to fork out in January. Given Hobbs record I have little faith that the right sort of leadership character will be found.

Hobbs is useless. Just look at his purchases compared to Dougie. There is absolutely no comparison. He’s almost certainly a yes man which is why Parish likes him.

 

[Runningman]

Hobbs is useless. Just look at his purchases compared to Dougie. There is absolutely no comparison. He’s almost certainly a yes man which is why Parish likes him.

Not defending Hobbs (how can I) but the Prem has moved on significantly since the Dougie days. Mediocre players cost £60/70m, good players £100m +. Big 6 hoovering up all and sundry from Europe (and to a lesser extent the Championship). Lesser Prem clubs are now fishing in a completely different pool.

 

[Eaglecoops]

Not defending Hobbs (how can I) but the Prem has moved on significantly since the Dougie days. Mediocre players cost £60/70m, good players £100m +. Big 6 hoovering up all and sundry from Europe (and to a lesser extent the Championship). Lesser Prem clubs are now fishing in a completely different pool.

So we can no longer afford Championship players? Thats where most of our big money sell on stars have come from.

The talent for a scout is also finding future stars in obscure leagues. Only having Wolves players in your phone list is not really a recipe for success

 

[palace99]

I wanted Sage to succeed but have come to the conclusion that he doesn't have the players to do so with the system he wants to play.

As you say whilst the back 3 on show isn't a foundation for success, it wasn't solely down to them on Sunday. In fact, the first goal was well worked by Newcastle - simple and direct. With most of our players drawn to our right hand side Hall, in acres of space was able to switch play to our left where, ironically. for once, Mitchell was in a defensive position but far to far away to do anything to stop their player receiving the ball and passing the ball past him to Murphy. It seemed to me Murphy had been Mitchell's man to mark but he left him so as to try and close down the player Hall passed to, leaving Canvot suddenly having to come across to mark Murphy. Unfortunately, Murphy received and crossed the ball in virtually one movement before Canvot could get the block in. I don't blame Canvot for that. It was an excellent bit of work by Murphy and luckily for them his cross proved to be inch-perfect for Osula.

As for the second goal, the less said the better, other than the midfield let the defenders down.

If Sage doesn't change tack to a system better suited to the players at his disposal, then he's doomed IMO. We need a midfield 3 so as to beef up protection for the defence.

I was very angry as well as frustrated after yesterday's match and, for the first time this season, wanted Sage out pronto. On reflection, I still believe he'll have to go for the simple reason, I don't think he'll change his system to match his resources. Even if he did change system appropriately, we'll still struggle given the overall quality of the resources at his disposal.

Regarding the 1st goal with a back 3 they should move across to compensate when a WB goes forward. So Mitchell goes forward and Murphy is left unmarked. He receives the ball and Canvot comes cross to cover. So far so good. The cross is early and accurate so not much we can do to stop it. However, with only 1 forward to mark Disasi and Richards are sleeping. Yes it's a good finish but no great movement from the striker. He just stands near the front post and Disasi is too far forward and Richards not covering behind.

Is it a lack of concentration? Not sure but it was an easy goal to score and it changed the game.

 

[radicalsteve]

It's a perfect storm - as we all know, the squad is not good enough to place mid table, and we have a manger who is unable or unwilling to adapt our set up and tactics to find the right balance and flex. The only thing you can change of course is the manager at this point. I fear a real embarrassment coming at Spurs, and like West Ham last year we are potentially beyond recovery with our ongoing defensive frailty. This might just be the year when the club finally runs out of road, because our recruitment over the last 18 months has not been good enough for the ever increasingly competitive Premier League. SP and the leadership are operating the business on a shoe string, so the inevitable decline is now exposed. Hard to see how we are going to survive with the current team both on the pitch and the team behind the scenes making short term decisions. It was good while it lasted, but history shows clubs like ours cannot prevail with such bad recruitment strategies and no investment capacity.

 

[Den1923]

Not defending Hobbs (how can I) but the Prem has moved on significantly since the Dougie days. Mediocre players cost £60/70m, good players £100m +. Big 6 hoovering up all and sundry from Europe (and to a lesser extent the Championship). Lesser Prem clubs are now fishing in a completely different pool.

There are many EPL peer clubs that have much better scouting network than we seem to have to seek out good players well below the prices you are quoting. Good examples are Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford. As a club we are surely seeking to maintain our EPL status which requires good succession planning and the managing of players contracts so we are not left in a hole. Clubs who fail in this basic task and who were once in the top flight now litter the lower leagues with little hope of getting back up to EPL standards. I do not want that to happen to our club but fear it might unless there are changes from the top downwards!

 

[RubinsCube]

Regarding the 1st goal with a back 3 they should move across to compensate when a WB goes forward. So Mitchell goes forward and Murphy is left unmarked. He receives the ball and Canvot comes cross to cover. So far so good. The cross is early and accurate so not much we can do to stop it. However, with only 1 forward to mark Disasi and Richards are sleeping. Yes it's a good finish but no great movement from the striker. He just stands near the front post and Disasi is too far forward and Richards not covering behind.

Is it a lack of concentration? Not sure but it was an easy goal to score and it changed the game.

Exactly what I thought when I saw the first goal. The back three are marking space, not players. The cross comes in under little pressure. The goalscorer makes a fairly standard run in front of his marker and is not followed. Goal.

It is so predicable at this stage I cannot see a game coming where the opposition plays well and we do not concede at least two goals.

As an aside, I saw an interview many years ago where Venables was making the point that when he played a back three with offensively minded wing backs the left and right centre backs would ideally be competent full backs. The main reason was so that they could make that move across and deal with danger wide (Neville and Pierce being those players for England when he did it, Tony Adams being in the middle). This in turn meant the shielding defensive midfield player in front of them (Ince in the same England team) became a key player.

 

[RubinsCube]

It's a perfect storm - as we all know, the squad is not good enough to place mid table, and we have a manger who is unable or unwilling to adapt our set up and tactics to find the right balance and flex. The only thing you can change of course is the manager at this point. I fear a real embarrassment coming at Spurs, and like West Ham last year we are potentially beyond recovery with our ongoing defensive frailty. This might just be the year when the club finally runs out of road, because our recruitment over the last 18 months has not been good enough for the ever increasingly competitive Premier League. SP and the leadership are operating the business on a shoe string, so the inevitable decline is now exposed. Hard to see how we are going to survive with the current team both on the pitch and the team behind the scenes making short term decisions. It was good while it lasted, but history shows clubs like ours cannot prevail with such bad recruitment strategies and no investment capacity.

I agree with your diagnosis but not the prognosis: it is not too late to turn this around. We just need to get some basics right, mainly in our third. This notion that we "can play the way we want to play" is clearly not working.

Either the manager works out how to grind until at least January or we need someone else in who can.