US Politics

[Mark B]

Most of that rather childish nonsense will get the response it deserves. Which is none.

Once again you either misunderstand or misrepresent. The ICC does not claim to hold jurisdiction over citizens without their consent. If their country is a member of the UN, and the UN refers someone to the ICC then the consent exists. You need to have done something very bad for that to happen and for your own country not to have taken action itself. As the ICC has no police force of its own it relies on the local police services to detain anyone accused. Therefore many warrants are largely symbolic but nonetheless hugely significant because they put the criminal activity under the spotlight.

My response was brilliant, that you lack the facetiousness to compete in mental jiujitsu with me is evident.

Let me try breaking this down Barney style since being factual doesn't seem to work.
- The ICC doesn't have a mandate over non-participating nations.
- The UN has no authority to give them that mandate without the approval of the Security Council (Article 13(b)).
- Because it is tying to without the authority, it is overreach.

I have zero interest in virtue signaling criminal charges. Children play those games while the adults run the world.

 

[Mark B]

You are now experiencing what the rest of us know know about WE. the ignore button is just there

I'm retired so I'm like Captain America, I can do this all day!

 

[Mark B]

Hamas ran Gaza, but not Palestine. It had, and has, no authority in the West Bank.

Recognising Palestine as a state is to support, and keep alive, the prospect of a two state solution to a problem that has existed for most of my life. Its future government is an issue for the future.

Hamas won the last election in Gaza and is officially the government of Gaza. That they have denied elections for the last twenty years doesn't not change that they are still legally the government of Gaza which makes it an invasion of Israel by the nation of Palestine of which Gaza belongs to.

If Northern Ireland attacks Ireland, the United Kingdom still attacked Ireland.

 

[eaglesdare]

What in? Gas appliance engineering?

Or gender studies?

 

[eaglesdare]

I trust there will be global outrage over an Iranian woman sentenced to death for a social media post?

Or do you have to be terrorist and murder people and sentenced to death to have a global outcry?

Iranian woman handed death sentence for ‘blasphemy’ in social media post

Rights groups warn of Tehran regime’s increasing use of executions to suppress dissent, with at least 600 this year

www.theguardian.com

 

[cryrst]

I trust there will be global outrage over an Iranian woman sentenced to death for a social media post?

Or do you have to be terrorist and murder people and sentenced to death to have a global outcry?

Iranian woman handed death sentence for ‘blasphemy’ in social media post

Rights groups warn of Tehran regime’s increasing use of executions to suppress dissent, with at least 600 this year

www.theguardian.com

And trump bad for actually trying to get rid of this scummy regime.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

My response was brilliant, that you lack the facetiousness to compete in mental jiujitsu with me is evident.

Let me try breaking this down Barney style since being factual doesn't seem to work.
- The ICC doesn't have a mandate over non-participating nations.
- The UN has no authority to give them that mandate without the approval of the Security Council (Article 13(b)).
- Because it is tying to without the authority, it is overreach.

I have zero interest in virtue signaling criminal charges. Children play those games while the adults run the world.

You remind me of Trump! You too seem to think that if you repeat a lie often enough it will somehow metamorphosise into a truth. That might be enough if you wear a stupid baseball cap emblazoned with MAGA but not for those with something between their ears.

The ICC does NOT act without authority!

• Under Article 13(b) of the Rome Statute, the UN Security Council refers a broad situation (such as a country or region experiencing core international crimes) to the ICC Prosecutor.
• Prosecutor Investigation: Once the UNSC refers a situation, the ICC Prosecutor independently investigates the situation to determine which individuals bear the greatest responsibility for crimes like war crimes, crimes against humanity, or genocide.

No overreach of any kind at all. Nor is there “virtue signaling”. Drawing attention to criminal activity is a very serious matter. It raises awareness everywhere, including in the countries where the crimes are being committed. It helps stiffen the resolve of those determined to counter it. It’s very far from being simply symbolic.

If your previous response was “brilliant” I would hate to see a dull one. It read as though written by a spotty teenager. Which perhaps you are!

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Hamas won the last election in Gaza and is officially the government of Gaza. That they have denied elections for the last twenty years doesn't not change that they are still legally the government of Gaza which makes it an invasion of Israel by the nation of Palestine of which Gaza belongs to.

If Northern Ireland attacks Ireland, the United Kingdom still attacked Ireland.

That’s a ridiculous analogy. Northern Ireland does not possess its own military. Any organisation attempting to attack its southern neighbour would see the British army helping to suppress it. Just as it has for decades.

The situation in Palestine is much more nuanced and complicated, largely because of Israel. Hamas ran Gaza but don’t speak for Palestine. The PLO does. They are represented at the UN by the “Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine”. Hamas is not involved.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

And trump bad for actually trying to get rid of this scummy regime.

Most people would like to see an end to the regime.

They wouldn’t though try to do it in a way which has backfired quite so badly, both by creating an energy crisis and actually strengthening the regime rather than weakening it.

That’s why Trump is bad. Which is a very mild way of describing an idiot.

 

[Mark B]

You remind me of Trump! You too seem to think that if you repeat a lie often enough it will somehow metamorphosise into a truth. That might be enough if you wear a stupid baseball cap emblazoned with MAGA but not for those with something between their ears.

The ICC does NOT act without authority!

• Under Article 13(b) of the Rome Statute, the UN Security Council refers a broad situation (such as a country or region experiencing core international crimes) to the ICC Prosecutor.
• Prosecutor Investigation: Once the UNSC refers a situation, the ICC Prosecutor independently investigates the situation to determine which individuals bear the greatest responsibility for crimes like war crimes, crimes against humanity, or genocide.

No overreach of any kind at all. Nor is there “virtue signaling”. Drawing attention to criminal activity is a very serious matter. It raises awareness everywhere, including in the countries where the crimes are being committed. It helps stiffen the resolve of those determined to counter it. It’s very far from being simply symbolic.

If your previous response was “brilliant” I would hate to see a dull one. It read as though written by a spotty teenager. Which perhaps you are!

I must have hurt your feelings pointing out that you have no clue what you are talking about. Do you need a hug? I'm not a Trump voter, but he is correct in regards to things like Europeans not contributing their share to NATO and letting the US carry the burden.

I'll add definitions since you don't seem to understand what word's in the English language mean.

Overreach: Exceeding Authority (Verb / Noun): Going past the limits of your official power, legal jurisdiction, or mandate. Example: A government agency or court acting outside its designated legal bounds.

Let's review whether the ICC has authority over Russia or Israel or has it overreached its mandate.

• Is Russia a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Is Israel a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Has the UN Security Council given the ICC authority to independently investigate Russia or Israel? Nope, so the ICC is overreaching.

So where have those nations given the ICC authority over their citizens? Oh, they haven't? So did the ICC go beyond its mandate in investigating and trying to prosecute Israeli leaders? Sure did, that is overreach, no matter how you try to pretend its not. Definition of overreach has been met and you are wrong.

Virtue signaling is the public display of a moral, political, or social viewpoint with the primary intent of communicating one's own good character, empathy, or high standing, rather than taking meaningful action or possessing deep conviction.

If all you are doing is "raising awareness" then you are virtue signaling.

Seriously, even your statements are validating my positions, you are kind of struggling at presenting a logical argument with facts presented to support your argument instead of mine. You don't even know the basic facts of the people involved and what is going on. Speaking of teenagers, my teenagers can put together a more effective argument, so maybe I'll let them help you craft a response in the future.

 

[Mark B]

That’s a ridiculous analogy. Northern Ireland does not possess its own military. Any organisation attempting to attack its southern neighbour would see the British army helping to suppress it. Just as it has for decades.

The situation in Palestine is much more nuanced and complicated, largely because of Israel. Hamas ran Gaza but don’t speak for Palestine. The PLO does. They are represented at the UN by the “Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine”. Hamas is not involved.

The British Army did very little to curb, Ulster Volunteer Force, just like the Palestinian government currently does to Hamas. Most of the time they colluded together. I would recommend Lethal Allies and A State in Denial which cover how the British government collaborated with the UVF. The documentary Unquiet Graves on the Glenanne Gang is exceptionally well done although I'm not sure if Prime is still blocking it from being viewed in the UK as they were when it initially came out a couple of years ago but I'm pretty sure it is on AppleTV if you have that.

I do agree with you that Palestine is more challenging then Ireland. There just aren't enough Irish in Northern Ireland to make it anywhere near the complex problem that Palestine has been with Hamas. Hamas is involved in that their actions are preventing the Palestinian government from being able to hold the moral high ground as well are the single reason why UNSC Resolution 2803 has gone no where in the last year. The challenge that Hamas and Palestine face today is that their current global support has more to do with countries and people hating Israel then it really is about Gaza. As we have already seen, a significant portion of the Gaza support vanished when it left the headlines and the people of Gaza are struggling as Hamas goes back to consolidating power.

 

[Badger11]

I must have hurt your feelings pointing out that you have no clue what you are talking about. Do you need a hug? I'm not a Trump voter, but he is correct in regards to things like Europeans not contributing their share to NATO and letting the US carry the burden.

I'll add definitions since you don't seem to understand what word's in the English language mean.

Overreach: Exceeding Authority (Verb / Noun): Going past the limits of your official power, legal jurisdiction, or mandate. Example: A government agency or court acting outside its designated legal bounds.

Let's review whether the ICC has authority over Russia or Israel or has it overreached its mandate.

• Is Russia a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Is Israel a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Has the UN Security Council given the ICC authority to independently investigate Russia or Israel? Nope, so the ICC is overreaching.

So where have those nations given the ICC authority over their citizens? Oh, they haven't? So did the ICC go beyond its mandate in investigating and trying to prosecute Israeli leaders? Sure did, that is overreach, no matter how you try to pretend its not. Definition of overreach has been met and you are wrong.

Virtue signaling is the public display of a moral, political, or social viewpoint with the primary intent of communicating one's own good character, empathy, or high standing, rather than taking meaningful action or possessing deep conviction.

If all you are doing is "raising awareness" then you are virtue signaling.

Seriously, even your statements are validating my positions, you are kind of struggling at presenting a logical argument with facts presented to support your argument instead of mine. You don't even know the basic facts of the people involved and what is going on. Speaking of teenagers, my teenagers can put together a more effective argument, so maybe I'll let them help you craft a response in the future.

Well said, International law is often misrepresented. It is just a series of treaties between government if countries refuse to sign up to them they are not breaching international law they are just simply not part of it. This may upset other governments but it's no different to a broadband supplier trying to penalise you over a contract you have never signed.

In some ways it is arrogant that a group of nations have decided to impose "their world view" on others.

 

[Spindle]

My response was brilliant, that you lack the facetiousness to compete in mental jiujitsu with me is evident.

Let me try breaking this down Barney style since being factual doesn't seem to work.
- The ICC doesn't have a mandate over non-participating nations.
- The UN has no authority to give them that mandate without the approval of the Security Council (Article 13(b)).
- Because it is tying to without the authority, it is overreach.

I have zero interest in virtue signaling criminal charges. Children play those games while the adults run the world.

Game Set and Match.

Now you'll see him for what he is, a pigeon playing you at chess.

 

[Spindle]

Hamas won the last election in Gaza and is officially the government of Gaza. That they have denied elections for the last twenty years doesn't not change that they are still legally the government of Gaza which makes it an invasion of Israel by the nation of Palestine of which Gaza belongs to.

If Northern Ireland attacks Ireland, the United Kingdom still attacked Ireland.

I only disagree with you on the Nation of Palestine.

 

[Spindle]

I trust there will be global outrage over an Iranian woman sentenced to death for a social media post?

Or do you have to be terrorist and murder people and sentenced to death to have a global outcry?

Iranian woman handed death sentence for ‘blasphemy’ in social media post

Rights groups warn of Tehran regime’s increasing use of executions to suppress dissent, with at least 600 this year

www.theguardian.com

Feminists and their simped men will be along shortly to ignore this.

 

[Spindle]

Pigeon shitting on the board strutting around knocking over the pieces and claiming it has won

^^^

 

[Spindle]

That’s a ridiculous analogy. Northern Ireland does not possess its own military. Any organisation attempting to attack its southern neighbour would see the British army helping to suppress it. Just as it has for decades.

https://www.army.mod.uk/learn-and-explore/about-the-army/corps-regiments-and-units/infantry/royal-irish-regiment/

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I must have hurt your feelings pointing out that you have no clue what you are talking about. Do you need a hug? I'm not a Trump voter, but he is correct in regards to things like Europeans not contributing their share to NATO and letting the US carry the burden.

I'll add definitions since you don't seem to understand what word's in the English language mean.

Overreach: Exceeding Authority (Verb / Noun): Going past the limits of your official power, legal jurisdiction, or mandate. Example: A government agency or court acting outside its designated legal bounds.

Let's review whether the ICC has authority over Russia or Israel or has it overreached its mandate.

• Is Russia a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Is Israel a signatory of the Rome Statute?
  • Nope, so investigating and charging them is overreach because they don't have the authority.
• Has the UN Security Council given the ICC authority to independently investigate Russia or Israel? Nope, so the ICC is overreaching.

So where have those nations given the ICC authority over their citizens? Oh, they haven't? So did the ICC go beyond its mandate in investigating and trying to prosecute Israeli leaders? Sure did, that is overreach, no matter how you try to pretend its not. Definition of overreach has been met and you are wrong.

Virtue signaling is the public display of a moral, political, or social viewpoint with the primary intent of communicating one's own good character, empathy, or high standing, rather than taking meaningful action or possessing deep conviction.

If all you are doing is "raising awareness" then you are virtue signaling.

Seriously, even your statements are validating my positions, you are kind of struggling at presenting a logical argument with facts presented to support your argument instead of mine. You don't even know the basic facts of the people involved and what is going on. Speaking of teenagers, my teenagers can put together a more effective argument, so maybe I'll let them help you craft a response in the future.

You are continuing to do what I accused you of doing. Repeating lies in the hope they will be seen as truths by the dumb. Just like Trump you are so convinced by your own ability that you are unable to realise how ridiculous your position is. I don't need to mock you! You manage it very well yourself.

Neither Russia, nor Israel are signatories to the Rome Statute. That's not, and never has been, in dispute. Both though are members of the UN. They don't need to give the ICC explicit authority over their citizens. It already exists as a consequence of their UN membership. If the UN refers a matter to the ICC for investigation the ICC has all the authority it requires. It is within it's mandate to investigate and identify those reponsible for any crimes. No overreach of any kind, despite your claims, which are either based on ignorance or the propaganda spread in the USA on this subject.

You also misrepresent "virtue signaling". Those who do this do so in an attempt to portray themselves in a good light. It is entirely to their personal benefit. The ICC identifying criminal activity and the individuals responsible is entirely aimed at the activity and the criminals responsible. This is not virtue signaling.

There are some very good reasons why we, through the UN and the independent ICC, are doing this. Allowing crimes such as we have, and are, witnessing to go unchallenged is to allow authoritarianism to rise unchallenged. Democracy cannot allow that to happen. The likes of Trump, Netanyahu and Putin might not like it, but it's essential that it happens. Allowing the kind of things described below to continue without them being examined forensically is a threat to all of us. You included.

Hundreds of IDF investigations into killings without public outcome, BBC Verify finds

BBC Verify has identified 254 incidents from the past three years the Israeli military said it is reviewing after being accused of harm.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

https://www.army.mod.uk/learn-and-explore/about-the-army/corps-regiments-and-units/infantry/royal-irish-regiment/

Are you really that dim?

They are part of the British Army. Not independent of it.

Do you think the Welsh Guards only defend Wales or the Scots Guards only Scotland?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Well said, International law is often misrepresented. It is just a series of treaties between government if countries refuse to sign up to them they are not breaching international law they are just simply not part of it. This may upset other governments but it's no different to a broadband supplier trying to penalise you over a contract you have never signed.

In some ways it is arrogant that a group of nations have decided to impose "their world view" on others.

If that were true it would be.

It isn't though true. The countries involved are members of the UN and it's the UN Security Council referring incidents to the ICC for investigation. The countries being investigated are members of the organisation making the referral. They are therefore part of the group commissioning the investigation.