US Politics

[eaglesdare]

More prejudice based on reading myopic biased opinions rather than actual facts!

The International Criminal Court (ICC) Pre-Trial Chamber ruled that Palestine is a State Party to the Rome Statute, and its jurisdiction covers the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.

Legal Status and the Rome Statute.

• Accession: Palestine deposited its instrument of accession to the Rome Statute on January 2, 2015, and the statute officially entered into force for Palestine on April 1, 2015, making it the 123rd State Party.
• Pre-Trial Chamber Ruling: On February 6, 2021, the ICC Pre-Trial Chamber confirmed in a majority ruling that the Court's territorial jurisdiction extends to the territories occupied by Israel since 1967 (Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem).
• Depositary Role: Under the Rome Statute, entities can become a State Party by depositing an instrument of accession or ratification with the United Nations Secretary-General, a process Palestine completed.

That’s not “facts.” That’s the Court dodging the actual legal question of statehood so it can target Israel.

 

[Mark B]

It’s you claiming overreach. Not me! You are merely parroting the attitudes of people like Netanyahu and Trump. The ICC does not “give itself authority”. The ICC possesses authority to investigate and prosecute people from non member states. They have the mandate to do so under the Rome Statute.

1. The Crime is Committed on the Territory of a Member State.

Under Article 12 of the Rome Statute, the ICC has jurisdiction if the core crime (such as war crimes or genocide) was committed on the geographic territory of a country that is an ICC member.

• Example: If a soldier or leader from a non-member state (e.g., the United States or Russia) is accused of committing war crimes inside a member state (e.g., Afghanistan or Ukraine), the ICC can legally investigate and prosecute that individual. Under international law, countries have the right to prosecute crimes committed inside their borders, and by joining the ICC, they delegate that authority to the international court.

2. The United Nations Security Council Refers the Situation

Under Article 13(b), the UN Security Council (UNSC) can formally refer a situation anywhere in the world to the ICC prosecutor.

• Because all UN member states are bound by the UN Charter, a Security Council referral bypasses the requirement for ICC membership.

3. The Non-Member State Submits an Ad Hoc Declaration

A non-member country can choose to voluntarily accept the ICC’s jurisdiction for a specific period or event without fully joining the court.

• Example: Ukraine is not a full state party to the Rome Statute but submitted two ad hoc declarations accepting ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on its territory, which allowed the ICC to initiate investigations there.

Just in case you are unaware Palestine is a full member of the ICC.

Now I expect you, like Netanyahu and Trump, don’t have much time for the UN either and also don’t recognise Palestine as a state. That though doesn’t mean that other countries can and have done so and have delegated authority to the ICC.

It’s NOT overreach. It’s a very important way of holding the powerful to account. Hopefully, in time, in an actual Court room but until then in the court of public opinion. Nothing the least insane involved in seeking to expose crimes to public view. It’s how you change things without using force.

Your "evidence" that it isn't overreach is the overreach document by the organization itself. So if my cousin calls himself a girl, he's a girl because he said so. Cool. Sure.

I tend to go with the Montevideo Convention of 1933 that defines statehood as requiring a permanent population, a defined territory, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states. I think Palestine does that i most cases although the Gaza area has not been under the control of the actual Palestinian government for decades.

The ICC does not have a God given right of oversight over other nations. Because the ICC has given itself authorities without having a mandate over those nations. And because the ICC doesn't have that mandate, it is overreach.

 

[Mark B]

That's all well and good Mark but you've got to realise that WE is a member of a bowls club in Truro. This (and how's this for irony!?) Trumps any knowledge you may think you have on any matter.

My American brain just exploded at that sentence that I've literally stared at it for 5 minutes trying to understand it because I read it in American instead of English (I get it, pretty obvious now).

I now realize:
- Bowls club means lawn bowling where people actually get fresh air. Not the 10 pin that involves a morbidly obese guys pretending they are athletes in a place that still smells like smoke 30 years after smoking was banned inside.
- Truro in Cornwall and not Truro on Cape Cod in Massachusetts (great beaches by the way). This is a gimmie though that I think they are both super liberal. Please correct me if I am wrong about Truro.
- I did some famous people from Truro and I didn't see WE's name on Wikipedia as Notable residents for Truro so someone needs to add him. I would, but I'm still banned from editing Wikipedia (long story).
- Trumps as to outrank; not Trumps as in people selling their souls to Middle Easterners for airplanes.

A very long way of saying that I apologize to WE for not understanding his importance and I apologize to for not understanding.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That’s not “facts.” That’s the Court dodging the actual legal question of statehood so it can target Israel.

It is 100% factual!

Palestine is a member. The Court did recognise their legitimacy.

That you disagree with those facts doesn’t change them into opinion. You hold an opinion. They don’t. They hold facts.

 

[chris123]

My American brain just exploded at that sentence that I've literally stared at it for 5 minutes trying to understand it because I read it in American instead of English (I get it, pretty obvious now).

I now realize:
- Bowls club means lawn bowling where people actually get fresh air. Not the 10 pin that involves a morbidly obese guys pretending they are athletes in a place that still smells like smoke 30 years after smoking was banned inside.
- Truro in Cornwall and not Truro on Cape Cod in Massachusetts (great beaches by the way). This is a gimmie though that I think they are both super liberal. Please correct me if I am wrong about Truro.
- I did some famous people from Truro and I didn't see WE's name on Wikipedia as Notable residents for Truro so someone needs to add him. I would, but I'm still banned from editing Wikipedia (long story).
- Trumps as to outrank; not Trumps as in people selling their souls to Middle Easterners for airplanes.

A very long way of saying that I apologize to WE for not understanding his importance and I apologize to for not understanding.

It was good enough for Francis Drake

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Your "evidence" that it isn't overreach is the overreach document by the organization itself. So if my cousin calls himself a girl, he's a girl because he said so. Cool. Sure.

I tend to go with the Montevideo Convention of 1933 that defines statehood as requiring a permanent population, a defined territory, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states. I think Palestine does that i most cases although the Gaza area has not been under the control of the actual Palestinian government for decades.

The ICC does not have a God given right of oversight over other nations. Because the ICC has given itself authorities without having a mandate over those nations. And because the ICC doesn't have that mandate, it is overreach.

You can “go” with whatever you like. That doesn’t change anything. The ICC exists because a large group of countries decided it would. It is backed by the UN, although independent of it.

Deciding not to take it seriously is your choice. Along with Trump and Netanyahu. The latter though cannot avoid all the consequences as he would be arrested in many places so is limited on where he can go. I expect, in time, Trump to face a similar issue.

The ICC doesn’t give itself anything. It is delegated authority by statute and by the UN. It cannot overreach. It can only do what it is tasked to do.

Your gripe isn’t with the ICC. It’s with the countries who established it and with the UN which backs it.

That you support those who decline to recognise its authority puts you squarely on the side of the corrupt despots who control some of the most appallingly run countries. Ask yourself why they don’t support it? There is only one answer. Are you man enough to admit it?

 

[eaglesdare]

It is 100% factual!

Palestine is a member. The Court did recognise their legitimacy.

That you disagree with those facts doesn’t change them into opinion. You hold an opinion. They don’t. They hold facts.

The Court itself admitted it never ruled on actual statehood under international law it just accepted the paperwork. That’s procedure not legitimacy.

To recognize it as a state then you have to recognize it deliberately invaded Israel.

But anyways there's a whole different thread devoted to that shite 100s of miles away from us all.

 

[Spindle]

Your "evidence" that it isn't overreach is the overreach document by the organization itself. So if my cousin calls himself a girl, he's a girl because he said so. Cool. Sure.

Well yes, Wisbech does believe s*** like this. He has a cock and balls weilding niece which he totally believes and supports. 🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[eaglesdare]

Well yes, Wisbech does believe s*** like this. He has a cock and balls weilding niece which he totally believes and supports. 🤣 🤣 🤣

Science and facts untill it isint 🤣

 

[Mark B]

You can “go” with whatever you like. That doesn’t change anything. The ICC exists because a large group of countries decided it would. It is backed by the UN, although independent of it.

Deciding not to take it seriously is your choice. Along with Trump and Netanyahu. The latter though cannot avoid all the consequences as he would be arrested in many places so is limited on where he can go. I expect, in time, Trump to face a similar issue.

The ICC doesn’t give itself anything. It is delegated authority by statute and by the UN. It cannot overreach. It can only do what it is tasked to do.

Your gripe isn’t with the ICC. It’s with the countries who established it and with the UN which backs it.

That you support those who decline to recognise its authority puts you squarely on the side of the corrupt despots who control some of the most appallingly run countries. Ask yourself why they don’t support it? There is only one answer. Are you man enough to admit it?

I agree with you on the why it exists and what its goal is. I also agree with you that a numerous nations that actively support it, primarily because they are too small for anyone to care about them so they view it as harmless to them and a great way to Europeans and Muslims happy without having to do anything substantial.

Absolutely it is my choice not to take the Insane Clown Court seriously. The problem for the Invisible Chicken Cult is that the US government told them to pound sand which means despite having 125 nations on board, the Trump Card overruled them all and now the ICC is freaking out trying to figure out how it will be funded in 6 months. That you think that the Insane Clown Cabal is going to go after a former US President is hilarious and I would offer the story of Ptolemy XIII when he went after the Pompey the Great (hint: it doesn't end well).

The Illogical Constipation Caucus overreached in going after both Russia and Israel since neither are currently members. Russia had been a member and then walked away.

Nope, my hatred goes to the Irritatingly Cheerful Cucks and how they took what could have been a wonderful organization and allowed Islamic influence to poison the well of what could have been an organization for good. It is the same rot as what happened in the UN General Assembly.

That is easy, the majority of those nations have national policies that articulate that their own governmental system and laws represent the highest legal authority in the land and they reject the idea that an external international body can hold jurisdiction over their citizens without consent. (I got a freedom boner just writing that, damn I love being an American.)

 

[Mark B]

Well yes, Wisbech does believe s*** like this. He has a cock and balls weilding niece which he totally believes and supports. 🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The Court itself admitted it never ruled on actual statehood under international law it just accepted the paperwork. That’s procedure not legitimacy.

To recognize it as a state then you have to recognize it deliberately invaded Israel.

But anyways there's a whole different thread devoted to that shite 100s of miles away from us all.

It wasn’t asked to rule on statehood. It ruled on the legitimacy of membership of the ICC.

Palestine didn’t invade Israel. Hamas made an incursion, carried out an atrocity, took hostages, and withdrew. The West Bank is part of Palestine.

 

[eaglesdare]

It wasn’t asked to rule on statehood. It ruled on the legitimacy of membership of the ICC.

Palestine didn’t invade Israel. Hamas made an incursion, carried out an atrocity, took hostages, and withdrew. The West Bank is part of Palestine.

Membership in the ICC is only open to states. By letting them in, the Court treated Palestine as one paperwork over actual law.

And if the West Bank and Gaza are Palestine, then Palestine attacked Israel. Hamas runs Gaza.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I agree with you on the why it exists and what its goal is. I also agree with you that a numerous nations that actively support it, primarily because they are too small for anyone to care about them so they view it as harmless to them and a great way to Europeans and Muslims happy without having to do anything substantial.

Absolutely it is my choice not to take the Insane Clown Court seriously. The problem for the Invisible Chicken Cult is that the US government told them to pound sand which means despite having 125 nations on board, the Trump Card overruled them all and now the ICC is freaking out trying to figure out how it will be funded in 6 months. That you think that the Insane Clown Cabal is going to go after a former US President is hilarious and I would offer the story of Ptolemy XIII when he went after the Pompey the Great (hint: it doesn't end well).

The Illogical Constipation Caucus overreached in going after both Russia and Israel since neither are currently members. Russia had been a member and then walked away.

Nope, my hatred goes to the Irritatingly Cheerful Cucks and how they took what could have been a wonderful organization and allowed Islamic influence to poison the well of what could have been an organization for good. It is the same rot as what happened in the UN General Assembly.

That is easy, the majority of those nations have national policies that articulate that their own governmental system and laws represent the highest legal authority in the land and they reject the idea that an external international body can hold jurisdiction over their citizens without consent. (I got a freedom boner just writing that, damn I love being an American.)

View attachment 4430

Most of that rather childish nonsense will get the response it deserves. Which is none.

Once again you either misunderstand or misrepresent. The ICC does not claim to hold jurisdiction over citizens without their consent. If their country is a member of the UN, and the UN refers someone to the ICC then the consent exists. You need to have done something very bad for that to happen and for your own country not to have taken action itself. As the ICC has no police force of its own it relies on the local police services to detain anyone accused. Therefore many warrants are largely symbolic but nonetheless hugely significant because they put the criminal activity under the spotlight.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Membership in the ICC is only open to states. By letting them in, the Court treated Palestine as one paperwork over actual law.

And if the West Bank and Gaza are Palestine, then Palestine attacked Israel. Hamas runs Gaza.

Hamas ran Gaza, but not Palestine. It had, and has, no authority in the West Bank.

Recognising Palestine as a state is to support, and keep alive, the prospect of a two state solution to a problem that has existed for most of my life. Its future government is an issue for the future.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Well yes, Wisbech does believe s*** like this. He has a cock and balls weilding niece which he totally believes and supports. 🤣 🤣 🤣

I certainly support them, and have done throughout their time at University. Where they are now studying for a PhD. They have one of the brightest minds you are ever likely to encounter.

They are my grandchild. Of course I support them. I don’t judge them. You don’t know them at all, yet you feel competent to judge them. Their intelligence puts your ignorance in the deepest shade.

 

[georgenorman]

I certainly support them, and have done throughout their time at University. Where they are now studying for a PhD. They have one of the brightest minds you are ever likely to encounter.

They are my grandchild. Of course I support them. I don’t judge them. You don’t know them at all, yet you feel competent to judge them. Their intelligence puts your ignorance in the deepest shade.

What in? Gas appliance engineering?

 

[HKOwen]

I agree with you on the why it exists and what its goal is. I also agree with you that a numerous nations that actively support it, primarily because they are too small for anyone to care about them so they view it as harmless to them and a great way to Europeans and Muslims happy without having to do anything substantial.

Absolutely it is my choice not to take the Insane Clown Court seriously. The problem for the Invisible Chicken Cult is that the US government told them to pound sand which means despite having 125 nations on board, the Trump Card overruled them all and now the ICC is freaking out trying to figure out how it will be funded in 6 months. That you think that the Insane Clown Cabal is going to go after a former US President is hilarious and I would offer the story of Ptolemy XIII when he went after the Pompey the Great (hint: it doesn't end well).

The Illogical Constipation Caucus overreached in going after both Russia and Israel since neither are currently members. Russia had been a member and then walked away.

Nope, my hatred goes to the Irritatingly Cheerful Cucks and how they took what could have been a wonderful organization and allowed Islamic influence to poison the well of what could have been an organization for good. It is the same rot as what happened in the UN General Assembly.

That is easy, the majority of those nations have national policies that articulate that their own governmental system and laws represent the highest legal authority in the land and they reject the idea that an external international body can hold jurisdiction over their citizens without consent. (I got a freedom boner just writing that, damn I love being an American.)

View attachment 4430

You are now experiencing what the rest of us know know about WE. the ignore button is just there

 

[eaglesdare]

Hamas ran Gaza, but not Palestine. It had, and has, no authority in the West Bank.

Recognising Palestine as a state is to support, and keep alive, the prospect of a two state solution to a problem that has existed for most of my life. Its future government is an issue for the future.

If Palestine includes Gaza, then Hamas runs part of that state. You can’t claim the territory and disown the government controlling it.

 

[eaglesdare]

You are now experiencing what the rest of us know know about WE. the ignore button is just there

I turned it off for a moment and got drawn in! 😬