US Politics

[Mark B]

ICC overreach? It's actions are intended to hold a very public mirror up to unacceptable behaviour so that world opinion can be formed. It's intended to throw light on those who prefer their actions remain in the shade. It's the result of the civilised world demonstrating collective values and showing moral leadership that even the most powerful cannot ignore. The ICC is not a body of it's own making. It's ours. Us being all the decent people in the world.

Only a couple of weeks ago Trump was sanctioning countries who were buying oil from Russia. If you think changing course quite so dramatically has anything to do with anything other than the mid terms then I disagree.

Who knows what support Russia has provided. I doubt it's publicly available. That said as it's very much in their interests to do so I would be surprised if they had just sat back. Putin doesn't think like that.

Yes, it is ICC overreach. It created its own rules and then changes them as it desires in attempts to include other nations. This why almost half the world's population is not a part of the ICC.

People who feel the need to tell others that they are a decent person are rarely ever decent people. That you are supportive of someone who(along with his brother) likes to sexually harass ad assault women and actively supports Groomer gangs (you can even read their helpful guideline in how to not to attract groomer gangs). So you can tell me that you are the side of that type of decency, but I find that type of behavior disgusting. There are very few purely good people in the world, and the ICC doesn't have any. Either does the Israeli government and Hamas surely doesn't. While you may be wishing for organizations like the ICC to live up to a high moral standard, they simply don't.

Of course it has to do with the mid-terms, it won't really matter as the Republicans have some weak Senate nominees and that is what it will come down to. If those races are close (Democrat Plus 3 and under) then you'll likely see the Republican pull it out but if they are plus 5, the Democrat is likely winning. Plus 4 is a toss up.

Tracking weapons and out of Iran is not really hard to do because they only have so many ports (air an sea) that they can get in at and the Israelis have a world class ground intelligence to cover the sea and the US tracks everything going in and out by air. Post blast analysis has also shown primarily Iranian with a few Chinese parts. The real issue for Iran is that they cannot afford anything that Russia sends and Putin is afraid that if he gives Iran weapons that Trump will go nuts and give Ukraine long range missiles and a bunch of other stuff they have been asking for.

 

[Mark B]

It amazes me how much the left want the fall of the USA. If and when, regardless of what we hate about the place, it will usher in far far more death and misery than it ever produced.

It's as if the countries we involved ourselves in are some utopia that would flourish. It's just more white hatred really.

The US has massive issues, like every nation does.

But if people think that China would be a better alternative then they should be drug tested.

 

[Spindle]

Trump thinking on the mid terms via pump prices.

'Time for Ukraine to get new president,' says Trump after Zelensky condemns diesel deal

Ukraine's leader had said the deal with Russia to release diesel into the US would help Moscow fund the war.

www.bbc.co.uk

Putin and Bibi definitely have something on him.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Trump doing things a year too late to make much difference to his mid term aims.

He came in saying he would end the Ukraine-Russia war, but wasn't prepared to enact the changes that would have made that happen.

He has no one to blame but himself.

 

[eaglesdare]

Trump doing things a year too late to make much difference to his mid term aims.

He came in saying he would end the Ukraine-Russia war, but wasn't prepared to enact the changes that would have made that happen.

He has no one to blame but himself.

I agree. He kept saying he would have the war over in a day. A simple phone call and it be over. 2 years later and still waiting.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

It's almost like the Superpowers have decided how they're going to share out the rest of the world between them. Trump wants Greenland and Cuba, China wants Taiwan, and Russia might just keep going west. I'm sure there are other places in the world already ear-marked

 

[ASCPFC]

It's almost like the Superpowers have decided how they're going to share out the rest of the world between them. Trump wants Greenland and Cuba, China wants Taiwan, and Russia might just keep going west. I'm sure there are other places in the world already ear-marked

Are you saying the EU isn't a superpower?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Are you saying the EU isn't a superpower?

Only in virtue signalling.

 

[Putitout]

Trump thinking on the mid terms via pump prices.

'Time for Ukraine to get new president,' says Trump after Zelensky condemns diesel deal

Ukraine's leader had said the deal with Russia to release diesel into the US would help Moscow fund the war.

www.bbc.co.uk

Putin and Bibi definitely have something on him.

What ever the reason he keeps being an asset to Putin. Barely bothers to hide it.
If this isn’t wake up time, God help us.

 

[Stirlingsays]

What ever the reason he keeps being an asset to Putin. Barely bothers to hide it.
If this isn’t wake up time, God help us.

Really so all those years of sanctions, weapons sales and continuous intelligence gathering for satellite targeting are all about being an asset to Putin.

Seriously?

 

[eaglesdare]

What ever the reason he keeps being an asset to Putin. Barely bothers to hide it.
If this isn’t wake up time, God help us.

Russia Russia Russia

 

[ASCPFC]

Russia Russia Russia

Ra, Ra, Rasputin

 

[Putitout]

Really so all those years of sanctions, weapons sales and continuous intelligence gathering for satellite targeting are all about being an asset to Putin.

Seriously?

All of which he has drawn back on and tampered with constantly. What the Senate and Congress say and do is very much in line with supporting Ukraine,. Trump has never been fully behind this. Now he breaks their own sanctions giving more power to Putins elbow. There can only be so many times when his actions are plainly in Putins favour before a penny drops. The man has constantly been telling the invaded country to cave in, when the leader of the land of the free should be telling Putin to get back in his box. Has he ever been openly and intensely critical of Putin in the way he is with the Ukrainian president.?
The diesel oil he gets from this deal would only keep US pumps going for a very short period, taking little to nothing off international prices. So who has worthwhile gains ? Putin gets money in his war chest, and a diplomatic , carry on mate , a massive gain and incentive to keep his war going.

 

[eaglesdare]

All of which he has drawn back on and tampered with constantly. What the Senate and Congress say and do is very much in line with supporting Ukraine,. Trump has never been fully behind this. Now he breaks their own sanctions giving more power to Putins elbow. There can only be so many times when his actions are plainly in Putins favour before a penny drops. The man has constantly been telling the invaded country to cave in, when the leader of the land of the free should be telling Putin to get back in his box. Has he ever been openly and intensely critical of Putin in the way he is with the Ukrainian president.?
The diesel oil he gets from this deal would only keep US pumps going for a very short period, taking little to nothing off international prices. So who has worthwhile gains ? Putin gets money in his war chest, and a diplomatic , carry on mate , a massive gain and incentive to keep his war going.

At the end of the day the US are not at war with Russia.

 

[ASCPFC]

At the end of the day the US are not at war with Russia.

The President of Peace ended the Cold War.

 

[Stirlingsays]

All of which he has drawn back on and tampered with constantly. What the Senate and Congress say and do is very much in line with supporting Ukraine,. Trump has never been fully behind this. Now he breaks their own sanctions giving more power to Putins elbow. There can only be so many times when his actions are plainly in Putins favour before a penny drops. The man has constantly been telling the invaded country to cave in, when the leader of the land of the free should be telling Putin to get back in his box. Has he ever been openly and intensely critical of Putin in the way he is with the Ukrainian president.?
The diesel oil he gets from this deal would only keep US pumps going for a very short period, taking little to nothing off international prices. So who has worthwhile gains ? Putin gets money in his war chest, and a diplomatic , carry on mate , a massive gain and incentive to keep his war going.

Hang on, what do you mean 'tampered with constantly'? Those things have been in place up to now on a war that under Trump would have been negotiated to an end in 2022.

It's certainly true that Trump views this....as do I....as one of the most stupid and avoidable wars ever. He also doesn't have a fully pro Ukraine viewpoint and is more neutral....That isn't 'pro Putin' because as I stated, all the sanctions are on Putin....All the weapon sales are to Europe.....All the intelligence gathering and targeting information is and was to Ukraine.

You present a narrative which is very common in our media but which isn't the full story and a lot of the world see it as only part of the story as well.

Anyway to try to dismiss this as all just 'pro Putin'....it's just not a reflection of the reality.

Can I remind people that we are not at war with Russia.
Nato is not at war with Russia.
Ukraine is not in Nato, and by all accounts won't be, as even the Ukrainian government has recently taken that aim out of its constitution.
We have sided with Ukraine.....We personally have given over ten billion we very likely won't get back, material and technology we also won't get back.

But there is no war here.

What is far more the reality is that Trump is transactional and wants what he thinks is best for the US.....Something I don't think he's always done but at least that was what he was thinking.

You know what I'm pro?

Cheaper energy prices and stopping a war.

 

[Mark B]

Hang on, what do you mean 'tampered with constantly'? Those things have been in place up to now on a war that under Trump would have been negotiated to an end in 2022.

It's certainly true that Trump views this....as do I....as one of the most stupid and avoidable wars ever. He also doesn't have a fully pro Ukraine viewpoint and is more neutral....That isn't 'pro Putin' because as I stated, all the sanctions are on Putin....All the weapon sales are to Europe.....All the intelligence gathering and targeting information is and was to Ukraine.

You present a narrative which is very common in our media but which isn't the full story and a lot of the world see it as only part of the story as well.

Anyway to try to dismiss this as all just 'pro Putin'....it's just not a reflection of the reality.

Can I remind people that we are not at war with Russia.
Nato is not at war with Russia.
Ukraine is not in Nato, and by all accounts won't be, as even the Ukrainian government has recently taken that aim out of its constitution.
We have sided with Ukraine.....We personally have given over ten billion we very likely won't get back, material and technology we also won't get back.

But there is no war here.

What is far more the reality is that Trump is transactional and wants what he thinks is best for the US.....Something I don't think he's always done but at least that was what he was thinking.

You know what I'm pro?

Cheaper energy prices and stopping a war.

Stop trying to argue using facts and logic you unemotional monster!

Where are your emotions? What about feelings? You probably haven't even considered the plight of transgendered Ukraine Neo Nazis who were forced to flee Mariupol? Selfish of you.

 

[Putitout]

Hang on, what do you mean 'tampered with constantly'? Those things have been in place up to now on a war that under Trump would have been negotiated to an end in 2022.

It's certainly true that Trump views this....as do I....as one of the most stupid and avoidable wars ever. He also doesn't have a fully pro Ukraine viewpoint and is more neutral....That isn't 'pro Putin' because as I stated, all the sanctions are on Putin....All the weapon sales are to Europe.....All the intelligence gathering and targeting information is and was to Ukraine.

You present a narrative which is very common in our media but which isn't the full story and a lot of the world see it as only part of the story as well.

Anyway to try to dismiss this as all just 'pro Putin'....it's just not a reflection of the reality.

Can I remind people that we are not at war with Russia.
Nato is not at war with Russia.
Ukraine is not in Nato, and by all accounts won't be, as even the Ukrainian government has recently taken that aim out of its constitution.
We have sided with Ukraine.....We personally have given over ten billion we very likely won't get back, material and technology we also won't get back.

But there is no war here.

What is far more the reality is that Trump is transactional and wants what he thinks is best for the US.....Something I don't think he's always done but at least that was what he was thinking.

You know what I'm pro?

Cheaper energy prices and stopping a war.

Support of Ukraine was always US policy before Trump. He has not done away with it , but has watered it down to a degree not found completely agreeable in his own Government circles . The war could and would have been avoided if Putin did not invade. Was Ukraine ever going to invade Russia?
Not once has he publicly told Putin he is out of order. The Ukrainian man gets dressed down at every opportunity . That’s not neutrality not even in the school yard would it be.
No we are not at war with Russia, and Ukraine, is not in NATO, But if Ukraine deserves to be invaded and have its sovereignty taken then so do all of us, and that can never be so regardless of cost.
Trump, gets mad at Ukraine for not caving in, he couldn’t be much clearer about that, if so Trumps attitude to Putin completely is different, Putin gets if not all but most of what he wants if that was to happen.
Trump doesn’t have the backing in his own country to completely stop aid to Ukraine , but his Idea of doing what’s best for the US might well include that, and that’s as maybe, but once more Putin , would benefit.

 

[eaglesdare]

Support of Ukraine was always US policy before Trump. He has not done away with it , but has watered it down to a degree not found completely agreeable in his own Government circles . The war could and would have been avoided if Putin did not invade. Was Ukraine ever going to invade Russia?
Not once has he publicly told Putin he is out of order. The Ukrainian man gets dressed down at every opportunity . That’s not neutrality not even in the school yard would it be.
No we are not at war with Russia, and Ukraine, is not in NATO, But if Ukraine deserves to be invaded and have its sovereignty taken then so do all of us, and that can never be so regardless of cost.
Trump, gets mad at Ukraine for not caving in, he couldn’t be much clearer about that, if so Trumps attitude to Putin completely is different, Putin gets if not all but most of what he wants if that was to happen.
Trump doesn’t have the backing in his own country to completely stop aid to Ukraine , but his Idea of doing what’s best for the US might well include that, and that’s as maybe, but once more Putin , would benefit.

There is a lot of ways that the war could have been avoided. Could have also ended years ago but boris johnson stuck his nose into it?
Trump wasn't the president when it started?

Anyways there's a whole thread on Ukraine and Russia 😴

 

[Stirlingsays]

Support of Ukraine was always US policy before Trump. He has not done away with it , but has watered it down to a degree not found completely agreeable in his own Government circles . The war could and would have been avoided if Putin did not invade. Was Ukraine ever going to invade Russia?
Not once has he publicly told Putin he is out of order. The Ukrainian man gets dressed down at every opportunity . That’s not neutrality not even in the school yard would it be.
No we are not at war with Russia, and Ukraine, is not in NATO, But if Ukraine deserves to be invaded and have its sovereignty taken then so do all of us, and that can never be so regardless of cost.
Trump, gets mad at Ukraine for not caving in, he couldn’t be much clearer about that, if so Trumps attitude to Putin completely is different, Putin gets if not all but most of what he wants if that was to happen.
Trump doesn’t have the backing in his own country to completely stop aid to Ukraine , but his Idea of doing what’s best for the US might well include that, and that’s as maybe, but once more Putin , would benefit.

You are wrong if you think strong support of Ukraine is widespread in Republican circles. You get strong opinions for and against Ukraine but not pro Russia and overall it's slightly in support of Ukraine support but much more in support of ending the war and it's far less strident on how that comes about.

It's not a match for how the EU and the rest of Nato regard it.

As for how this war came about, who is responsible for what, well there's a whole thread about that but let's just say as someone who started out with your opinion it rapidly cooled once I researched both sides. I quickly found out that this 'goodies and baddies' narrative is mostly properganda. Both Russia and Ukraine deserve each other.

As for your global Policeman attitidues to what's right and wrong in the world I again don't share your opinion that my energy bills need to suffer for what happens in Slavic lands over disputes that if they happened in Mexico the US would do exactly the same.

Perhaps if more people who want to intervene in foreign wars that cause my energy bills to soar, like both this Ukraine and Iran war....perhaps those in support should pay for these energy bills while those against should go back to the old prices.

Because I'll say one thing.....while stupid wars, that we don't need to be involved in, cost me in the pocket I'm going to complain about it.