Man City found guilty

[Jimenez]

True. My cousin is a City fan - used be a regular but stopped going when the UAE money started to impact things. He felt that buying success was wrong.

I supply the New York Sky Blues (MCFC NYC supporters group) with merchandise & have for a number of years. In the old days before the money they used to drink & watch the games in the Mad Hatter on third Ave & the vast majority of the fan base who were there would of watched them when they were playing in the lower leagues & most of them appeared to live within a 25 mile radius of the Etihad with obviously a smattering of US based supporters. Since the big money started to roll in & the closure of their original bar & a relocation to Amity Hall in the West Village it appears that a lot of the old guard have disappeared to be taken over by a primarily American fan base & obviously the occasional people on holiday to NYC. It's going to be extremely interesting to see that if City get severely punished how many of those supporters would be willing to drag themselves out of bed for a game against MK Dons or Oxford Utd.

 

[Adamoc123]

(I understand how unlikely this outcome would be but for the sake of interest) Under an assumption that all games played this season for city were set to 0-3 losses, the premier league table as of right now would be altered to look like this.

 

[martinelliff]

(I understand how unlikely this outcome would be but for the sake of interest) Under an assumption that all games played this season for city were set to 0-3 losses, the premier league table as of right now would be altered to look like this.

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My pessimistic guess is they will get a heavy fine in the 100s millions, a transfer ban for 2 years and a 60 point deduction which will mean they can still stay up if they get to around 100 points. It will give the relegation battle an added twist. They will have to complete the appeal and punishment before Easter otherwise it could mess up the end of the season top and bottom races. Optimistically they get a 90 point deduction or demotion to league two but doubt they will have the guts.

 

[Part Time James]

I truly don't believe any punishment will happen this season. But if they won the league that'd get everyone frothy!

 

[BromleyMonkey]

They were just taking to Troy Deeney on the radio about Watford suddenly being FA Cup winners if the stripped City of all the trophies they’ve won, they actually lost the final 6-0 🤣 what a farce it would be if they did that, they can’t re-write history, it would make a mockery of the game over the last however many years it’s been

 

[Part Time James]

They were just taking to Troy Deeney on the radio about Watford suddenly being FA Cup winners if the stripped City of all the trophies they’ve won, they actually lost the final 6-0 🤣 what a farce it would be if they did that, they can’t re-write history, it would make a mockery of the game over the last however many years it’s been

Not feasible is it? What next? Teams that went out to City in the early stages of the cup a decade ago demanding they'd have won the final? If they take trophies off City they'd have to just nullify them rather than give the trophy to a runner up surely

 

[doombear]

The only retrospective action I see is putting asterisks against the trophies City won with a note referencing the cheating. I don't see there being any handing out of trophies to the beaten runners-up.

I believe it will be the Independent Panel who decide on the punishments, so hopefully, the political and international ramifications shouldn't come into it.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Not feasible is it? What next? Teams that went out to City in the early stages of the cup a decade ago demanding they'd have won the final? If they take trophies off City they'd have to just nullify them rather than give the trophy to a runner up surely

And convince all the players to hand back their winners medals.if they haven't flogged them after being made bankrupt.

 

[Part Time James]

And convince all the players to hand back their winners medals.if they haven't flogged them after being made bankrupt.

Exactly. I assume you're saying that because you couldn't make it happen. The players won't really perceive themselves as having cheated and as such probably don't consider the medals to be false.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Exactly. I assume you're saying that because you couldn't make it happen. The players won't really perceive themselves as having cheated and as such probably don't consider the medals to be false.

Yes, and in that respect who's to say the players are wrong? They are, or were, just employees albeit in a corrupt organisation.

 

[Part Time James]

Yes, and in that respect who's to say the players are wrong? They are, or were, just employees albeit in a corrupt organisation.

That's what I mean. They are innocents who were employed and played their best to win something. I think the medals are valid. The trophies are less so.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Rodri made pretty much the same point. He and his teammates worked hard and won fairly on the pitch. What he missed, and is crucial, is that it's not clear City could have afforded to put those same players together without cheating. That's the key.

If the cheating inflated City's budget to the point they hired players they otherwise couldn't have, then the trophies are all null and void. If not, don't worry about that particular aspect too much.

 

[Part Time James]

Rodri made pretty much the same point. He and his teammates worked hard and won fairly on the pitch. What he missed, and is crucial, is that it's not clear City could have afforded to put those same players together without cheating. That's the key.

If the cheating inflated City's budget to the point they hired players they otherwise couldn't have, then all the trophies are all null and void. If not, don't worry about that particular aspect too much.

Not a lot to be gained by stripping them of their medals anyway. Punishing the wrong people.

 

[ASCPFC]

After whatever ineffectual punishment is given, will come the class action from every other Premier League club. There'll need to be a settlement. I'm thinking around 50 mil each club. Plus, I would think more if you missed out on Europe or the Champions League. Plus compensation for league places.

The unfortunate thing is that the money will just go into the money pit of transfers and wages anyway. It'll only benefit players in the long run. God forbid, for instance, the Premier League did anything for fans - who can also feel cheated.

 

[chris123]

Rodri made pretty much the same point. He and his teammates worked hard and won fairly on the pitch. What he missed, and is crucial, is that it's not clear City could have afforded to put those same players together without cheating. That's the key.

If the cheating inflated City's budget to the point they hired players they otherwise couldn't have, then the trophies are all null and void. If not, don't worry about that particular aspect too much.

8 of the charges relate to Roberto Mancini pay and 12 charges relate to players pay. So someone or their representatives must have known.

 

[ASCPFC]

Not a lot to be gained by stripping them of their medals anyway. Punishing the wrong people.

With some of them it would be fun though. Particularly with an official ceremony.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Not a lot to be gained by stripping them of their medals anyway. Punishing the wrong people.

Presumably it wouldn't be done to punish the players, or the fans. It's more that if they let them keep the trophies then, whatever punishment is meted out, the club's cheating worked.

Plus, I'm not sure sure the players have that strong a case that they won fairly on the pitch. It might be that they were so good because they were a team that the club couldn't actually afford, playing against clubs who only fielded teams they could afford. It's not exactly like playing with an extra man, but it's possibly enough to make the difference.

Again, all depends on how much of a financial difference the cheating made. Perhaps they still had much the same budget compared to other clubs, and it's all bonus payments and suchlike. In that case I'm fine with them keeping the trophies. If it made a difference, though, then I think just expunged all round.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

With some of them it would be fun though. Particularly with an official ceremony.

They could do it like the start of Branded when Chuck Connors got all his insignia ripped off. Herd them into one goal then they each have to march up to the halfway line, accompanied by a solemn drumbeat, to have their medals torn away then turn round for a vicious boot up the arse.

 

[CrazyBadger]

My pessimistic guess is they will get a heavy fine in the 100s millions, a transfer ban for 2 years and a 60 point deduction which will mean they can still stay up if they get to around 100 points. It will give the relegation battle an added twist. They will have to complete the appeal and punishment before Easter otherwise it could mess up the end of the season top and bottom races. Optimistically they get a 90 point deduction or demotion to league two but doubt they will have the guts.

Realistically, this Is what I see too.
Give them a chance to stay up, but make it really difficult, then (at least) 1 season in the championship. It doesn't quite fit the crimes, but is probably be the best middle ground, and serves as a deterrent to other teams.

Then there is the amount of time it has taken. The Players nor the Manager(s) aren't at fault, so seems harsh to strip the titles, but how can you not? It's a right mess of the PL's own making. IMHO, the answer here, lies in the precedent set by Burnley vs Everton, so all clubs with a genuine case for loss of earnings/reputation could sue City, each one independently handled as a separate case.

I think it's unlikley for the PL to just expel them from the League, the FA want them involved too much. It may also reIgnite the question of the SuperLeague, which the worlds leagues don't want.

 

[Part Time James]

With some of them it would be fun though. Particularly with an official ceremony.

A guard of dishonour?