Reform

[Teddy Eagle]

It may surprise you to know that I agree with this; but I would fine heavily first before further seeking to place any greater burden on our prisons.

However, we need legislation to ensure assets held in the names of wives, elderly relatives etc. can be seized and sold to pay fines. Black economy employers who work closely with the people smugglers need to know that a consequence of them engaging illegals is they and their families ending up penniless and on the street.

No greater shame. A more effective deterrent.

It's a bit Draconian to turf a family out because they're related to a wrong 'un. Where do you draw the line? Does everyone with a criminal in their line get made homeless?

 

[HKOwen]

'Out on the hustings':-

Owen Jones encounters a typical reform voter:-

Is that a fact?

🙂🙂

Owen " Mr Hissy Fit " Jones, what a joke trying to scrape a living from his Corbynista views

The guy is an idiot, it's only 25%

Reminds me of the woman who was convinced Corbyn had won the Nobel Peace Prize

 

[silvertop]

It's a bit Draconian to turf a family out because they're related to a wrong 'un. Where do you draw the line? Does everyone with a criminal in their line get made homeless?

Ha, from the communities I have in mind, they would never be without a roof. But they would be without any community standing; and that operates as a far more effective deterrent than prison.

BTW I wish Reform would stop proposing forceful repatriation. It's a false promise. All the recipient countries will do is send them back on the return flight. If nothing else, it will cost us a fortune in wasted flight tickets, and the airlines won't stand for it.

Military planes? Do you honestly think Pakistan, Afghanistan et al will allow them to land?

Please tell me how you think this can be safely achieved? It is as hair brained an idea as the Royal Marines fighting French Marines and/or the Gendarmes to drop boat people back on French beaches.

Essentially the first desperate, ill thought through idea that pops into their heads with the only intent to regain support and distract from their many errors.

Once in power, quietly shelved (like Rwanda).

 

[silvertop]

Do you support Israel's right to exist?

Of course. Hence the clear wording that I am not anti Zionist.

Just this particular Lecud government.

 

[silvertop]

It's a bit Draconian to turf a family out because they're related to a wrong 'un. Where do you draw the line? Does everyone with a criminal in their line get made homeless?

As an aside and tangentially related, you appear to be on the side of Israel good/Palestine bad.

Where do you stand on Israel demolishing the family homes of convicted terrorists?

A little trick they learned from us.

 

[Spiderman]

Ha, from the communities I have in mind, they would never be without a roof. But they would be without any community standing; and that operates as a far more effective deterrent than prison.

BTW I wish Reform would stop proposing forceful repatriation. It's a false promise. All the recipient countries will do is send them back on the return flight. If nothing else, it will cost us a fortune in wasted flight tickets, and the airlines won't stand for it.

Military planes? Do you honestly think Pakistan, Afghanistan et al will allow them to land?

Please tell me how you think this can be safely achieved? It is as hair brained an idea as the Royal Marines fighting French Marines and/or the Gendarmes to drop boat people back on French beaches.

Essentially the first desperate, ill thought through idea that pops into their heads with the only intent to regain support and distract from their many errors.

Once in power, quietly shelved (like Rwanda).

I agree to a certain extent. However, a commercial airline would not carry a deportee without documentation to confirm they would be acceptable at the other end. HO really don’t have that much clout with airlines ( they should but they rarely force the airlines hand). There is also the issue that if the planes captain refuses to carry a passenger, they will be offloaded and nothing HO can do about it.
If you withdrew Foreign aid and stop issuing visas, you watch them allow military planes to land. 😂 Plenty of airforce bases in Pakistan so wouldn’t need to use International airports.
I doubt Reform will get into power but if they did, I suspect they will not backtrack on this. If there is a political will there are ways and means

 

[Teddy Eagle]

As an aside and tangentially related, you appear to be on the side of Israel good/Palestine bad.

Where do you stand on Israel demolishing the family homes of convicted terrorists?

A little trick they learned from us.

As far as I'm aware I've never said anything about either Israel or Palestine so the relevance escapes me.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I tend to stay well clear when Wisbech is in active debate with anyone, but I would like to intervene on the first two points if I may.

The starting point is my view on Gaza. Oct 7 was an atrocity that received no support on here. There are those posters of dimmer mind who claim that any poster who criticized Israel's actions must support the Hamas atrocity. I assume you are of broader mind not to be caught up in that binary simplicity.

Thus, Israel were right to retaliate and seek to secure their border. They were wrong to retaliate to the extent they have and continue to. And to regularly argue that Hamas are to blame for the tens of thousands of innocent collateral deaths as Hamas use them as human shields supports the use of violence to shoot the "shields" out of the way. It also ignores the active atrocities committed by the IDF, not all of which they have managed to suppress despite their best efforts to keep the press out.

Thus, I am criticizing Israel. I am not criticizing Jews. My view is anti this particular government; not the entirety of Judaism or even Zionism.

However, where your argument falls short is my expressed view, or peaceful march, or article in a newspaper is not a petrol bomb on a synagogue. Who has advocated that on here? Your point is not remotely analogous. Your attack on some random Muslim because of the actions of Iran has only the slightest connection with your view on Iran. Your victim is likely to be of Pakistani extraction - wrong country and wrong side of the Islamic divide. Similarly, the increasing antisemitic attacks by British Muslims on Jews in recent years has little real connection with Israel's acts. Protesting outside their embassy and marches carrying anti Israel placards is directly connected. Beating up some random Jew is not. Again, who is supporting that on here?

Your second point is better but I suspect it has something to do with expectation. One demands more from a supposedly western democracy than one does from proscribed terrorists who lucked out in a protest vote 20 years ago but who have long since lost their mandate. If anything, negative stories about Hamas like stealing aid or hiding under hospitals is widely reported and condemned. After all, how else would you know about it? The problem is that much of the negative news was about Israel as they were seeking to bomb millions of Gazans away from their border and existence.

And in terms of the lack of condemnation from Jews, I have tried a few times to discuss this with Jews but they see no further than Oct 7. When asked about the tens of thousands of Gazans killed, they say that is "bullsh1t" and the point is closed down with the clear message that you better not step forward any further. This from a people whose whole identity is informed by millennia of persecution; and where much of its diaspora is surrounded and outnumbered by Muslims. It is surprising they do not call out their effective representatives with a "Not in my name" protest.

You poor thing.

 

[Spindle]

'Out on the hustings':-

Owen Jones encounters a typical reform voter:-

Is that a fact?

🙂🙂

I'd say that's true. The leftist stupidity is in that they think it's referring to Britain, too thick to understand the point without getting triggered.

When you consider that there are nearly 1 billion muslim women in the World and we have about 2 million in the UK (far too many) then that's a tiny percentage. Considering that in many muslim nations the women are prevented from attending school just how many do you think are going to be able to learn English from their 3rd World villages? There are 24 million women in Afghanistan, 15 in Saudi, 60 million in Egypt, 78 in Bangladesh, 115 in Pakistan and even 100 million in India. Plus all of the other nations they've taken over. - do you think that they are going to be fluent in English in these countries? We have 1 in 5 who can't even speak our language who fkin well live here!

Owen Jones is a complete moron, and a liar, as are you.

The only thing the guy was wrong about is that Owen Jones won't ever have a daughter to be raped, because he's gay, and would be killed by the very people he defends.