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Reform
- Topic starter Stirlingsays
- Start date
Total fake, it's quite discourteous to keep posting his fake nonsense and expecting it be believed or taken at face value on here.
He needs to reform himself
Ridiculously laughable
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Spindle
Member
- Country
England
You are the Jason Arday of Cornwall.
Whilst I don't believe you, hypothetically why you would disturb someone who was directing traffic?
Did you explain to him the parts of the religion of Islam and the Qu'ran in particular that in your opinion are wrong?
Now, the Islamic Centre is in the middle of the countryside, how did you happen to be walking past?
Карти на Google
Најдете локални бизниси, погледнете карти и најдете насоки за возење на „Карти на Google“.www.google.com
Or perhaps you were driving and you wound down your window to have a chat
You mention " those attending", so you have engaged with several attendees, was this the same funeral day or one of your other visits.?
Full of it you are
Did you see this chap, oddly a ginger
View attachment 3976
Wow, ANOTHER ginger convert
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
-
England
The question I asked, taken directly from the comment I was responding to, was “By far the most prevalent and violent hatred in the UK is anti-semitism”. I asked this on Apple’s Safari browser which I believe uses Google as its search engine. I requested verification. The full response being:-
“While antisemitism has reached severe, near-record levels in the UK with a sharp rise in violent incidents, Home Office data shows it is not "by far the most prevalent" overall. Race-based hate crimes constitute about 70% of all recorded offenses, and among religious hate crimes, offenses targeting Muslims frequently account for the highest total volume. However, when calculated as a proportion of the population size, the per-capita rate of targeted hate crimes against Jewish people is notably high. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Prevalence and Scale of Hate Crime
- Official police data for England and Wales records over 115,000 overall hate crimes annually.
- The vast majority (around 7 in 10) of recorded hate crimes are racially rather than specifically religiously motivated.
- When looking strictly at religious strands, both the Jewish and Muslim communities experience disproportionate targeting driven heavily by geopolitical tensions and domestic flashpoints. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Anti-Muslim Hatred: Numerically represents the largest share of specific religious hate crimes recorded by police forces in recent reporting cycles. [1, 2]
- Antisemitism: Monitored extensively by organizations like the Community Security Trust (CST), which logged nearly 2,000 anti-Jewish incidents in a single six-month period, showing a high per-capita victim rate relative to the size of the UK's Jewish population. [1, 2]”
I think you are looking at the same statistics and concentrating on the numbers “per head “ whereas the claim wasn’t that. It was what was most prevalant.
It is very noticeable that the start of the Hamas Israel conflict saw a huge surge in reported incidents, which has now declined. I therefore question whether describing all of these as “anti Semitism“ is correct. Many seem motivated by opposition to the Israeli government. Not to Jewish people. Too many conflate these two, very different, motivations.
Whilst I condemn any kind of hate crime, I cannot understand, let alone tolerate, hatred of anyone simply because of their belief. I can though understand political opposition to governments of the kind operated by Netanyahu.
As can many who are themselves Jewish!
I was in Israel just a few days before the Oct 7 atrocity and was struck by the strength of the opposition to the government and its policies. Of course, being attacked in that way tends to unify a nation and quieten opposition but it’s still there.
I think our own Jewish community should be more forthright in their criticism of the current Israeli government for there must be many who feel uncomfortable with it. Showing they don’t slavishly just accept all they do would help to separate real anti Semitism from anti Netanyahu sentiment.
georgenorman
Member
- Country
-
England
Are you Diane Abbott in disguise?The question I asked, taken directly from the comment I was responding to, was “By far the most prevalent and violent hatred in the UK is anti-semitism”. I asked this on Apple’s Safari browser which I believe uses Google as its search engine. I requested verification. The full response being:-
“While antisemitism has reached severe, near-record levels in the UK with a sharp rise in violent incidents, Home Office data shows it is not "by far the most prevalent" overall. Race-based hate crimes constitute about 70% of all recorded offenses, and among religious hate crimes, offenses targeting Muslims frequently account for the highest total volume. However, when calculated as a proportion of the population size, the per-capita rate of targeted hate crimes against Jewish people is notably high. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Prevalence and Scale of Hate Crime
Statistical Breakdown by Group
- Official police data for England and Wales records over 115,000 overall hate crimes annually.
- The vast majority (around 7 in 10) of recorded hate crimes are racially rather than specifically religiously motivated.
- When looking strictly at religious strands, both the Jewish and Muslim communities experience disproportionate targeting driven heavily by geopolitical tensions and domestic flashpoints. [1, 2, 3, 4]
This data comes from Government statistics, which can be found here:-
- Anti-Muslim Hatred: Numerically represents the largest share of specific religious hate crimes recorded by police forces in recent reporting cycles. [1, 2]
- Antisemitism: Monitored extensively by organizations like the Community Security Trust (CST), which logged nearly 2,000 anti-Jewish incidents in a single six-month period, showing a high per-capita victim rate relative to the size of the UK's Jewish population. [1, 2]”
I think you are looking at the same statistics and concentrating on the numbers “per head “ whereas the claim wasn’t that. It was what was most prevalant.
It is very noticeable that the start of the Hamas Israel conflict saw a huge surge in reported incidents, which has now declined. I therefore question whether describing all of these as “anti Semitism“ is correct. Many seem motivated by opposition to the Israeli government. Not to Jewish people. Too many conflate these two, very different, motivations.
Whilst I condemn any kind of hate crime, I cannot understand, let alone tolerate, hatred of anyone simply because of their belief. I can though understand political opposition to governments of the kind operated by Netanyahu.
As can many who are themselves Jewish!
I was in Israel just a few days before the Oct 7 atrocity and was struck by the strength of the opposition to the government and its policies. Of course, being attacked in that way tends to unify a nation and quieten opposition but it’s still there.
I think our own Jewish community should be more forthright in their criticism of the current Israeli government for there must be many who feel uncomfortable with it. Showing they don’t slavishly just accept all they do would help to separate real anti Semitism from anti Netanyahu sentiment.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
-
England
He genuinely believes it and there is no convincing otherwise.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
-
England
Are you mocking me, sir?
ASCPFC
Member
- Location
- Pro-Cathedral/caravan park
- Country
Ireland
Never trust them.
Runningman
Member
- Location
- Keston
- Country
-
England
Our forefathers pretty much worked themselves to an early grave. Unsurprisingly the work shy will live longer !
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
-
England
Our forefathers had jobs that meant they could own their own house.
My grandfather was as working class as they come and had a property I'd regularly visit as a child in Gipsy Hill, Norwood with enough space for two families to live that is worth well over a million today.
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Living In Hope
Member
- Location
- Petersfield
- Country
-
England
Thank you for a considered and non-aggressive response. I will focus partly a little on what we agree on and partly what we don't agree on. But I must start by saying that I believe it is not right to ignore relative population sizes. The statistics show that as a Jew in the UK you are almost 10 times as likely to suffer a hate incident than as a Muslim. I think we agree on that fact, but I also acknowledge that because the Muslim population vastly exceeds the Jewish one, the total number of incidents is is slightly more against Muslims because there are around 13 times as many Muslims in the UK as Jews.The question I asked, taken directly from the comment I was responding to, was “By far the most prevalent and violent hatred in the UK is anti-semitism”. I asked this on Apple’s Safari browser which I believe uses Google as its search engine. I requested verification. The full response being:-
“While antisemitism has reached severe, near-record levels in the UK with a sharp rise in violent incidents, Home Office data shows it is not "by far the most prevalent" overall. Race-based hate crimes constitute about 70% of all recorded offenses, and among religious hate crimes, offenses targeting Muslims frequently account for the highest total volume. However, when calculated as a proportion of the population size, the per-capita rate of targeted hate crimes against Jewish people is notably high. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Prevalence and Scale of Hate Crime
Statistical Breakdown by Group
- Official police data for England and Wales records over 115,000 overall hate crimes annually.
- The vast majority (around 7 in 10) of recorded hate crimes are racially rather than specifically religiously motivated.
- When looking strictly at religious strands, both the Jewish and Muslim communities experience disproportionate targeting driven heavily by geopolitical tensions and domestic flashpoints. [1, 2, 3, 4]
This data comes from Government statistics, which can be found here:-
- Anti-Muslim Hatred: Numerically represents the largest share of specific religious hate crimes recorded by police forces in recent reporting cycles. [1, 2]
- Antisemitism: Monitored extensively by organizations like the Community Security Trust (CST), which logged nearly 2,000 anti-Jewish incidents in a single six-month period, showing a high per-capita victim rate relative to the size of the UK's Jewish population. [1, 2]”
I think you are looking at the same statistics and concentrating on the numbers “per head “ whereas the claim wasn’t that. It was what was most prevalant.
It is very noticeable that the start of the Hamas Israel conflict saw a huge surge in reported incidents, which has now declined. I therefore question whether describing all of these as “anti Semitism“ is correct. Many seem motivated by opposition to the Israeli government. Not to Jewish people. Too many conflate these two, very different, motivations.
Whilst I condemn any kind of hate crime, I cannot understand, let alone tolerate, hatred of anyone simply because of their belief. I can though understand political opposition to governments of the kind operated by Netanyahu.
As can many who are themselves Jewish!
I was in Israel just a few days before the Oct 7 atrocity and was struck by the strength of the opposition to the government and its policies. Of course, being attacked in that way tends to unify a nation and quieten opposition but it’s still there.
I think our own Jewish community should be more forthright in their criticism of the current Israeli government for there must be many who feel uncomfortable with it. Showing they don’t slavishly just accept all they do would help to separate real anti Semitism from anti Netanyahu sentiment.
I agree with you that all such incidents are reprehensible and unacceptable whoever the victim. I also agree that criticism of the Israeli government and its actions does not represent anti-semitism.
However, without arguing about every point, there are some key points with which I vehemently disagree.
Firstly you say that some of the incidents are motivated by opposition to the Israeli government so may not strictly be anti-semitic. By logical extension if I go and attack a Muslim because the ultra-Islamic regime of Iran murdered tens of thousands of its citizens who objected to its ideology, then that may not strictly be an Islamophobic attack, but a protest against the government of Iran.
Secondly you say that our Jewish community should be more forthright in their condemnation of the Israeli government. What I personally witnessed after the atrocity of 7th October 2023, which sparked / gave licence to the Israeli assault on Hamas / Gaza, was that even before there was any response from Israel, there were large numbers of Muslims out on our streets demonstrating against Israel. The Muslim response to this terrorist atrocity was to rise up against the victims, not to be forthright in their condemnation of this disgusting action perpetrated by a government explicitly committed to genocide against Israel. Why focus on the lack of Jewish criticism of the Israeli government, rather than the lack of Muslim criticism of Hamas and 7th October ? There have been many manifestations of support by Muslims for Hamas's behaviour, none that I have seen by Jews in favour of the Israeli government.
Lastly, and I know you will never agree with this, but for you to claim that Reform is a legitimate target for "anti-hate" activists is just incomprehensible to me, and part of a narrative peddled by the left against Reform, because that is easier than debating the issues. They are a right wing (but not far right) party, and far less extreme in their views than, for example, the Green Party. Sure I have no doubt that there are Reform politicians who can correctly be accused of hatred, just as there are Labour politicians who can be. But regarding their view on immigration, which I assume is where your view comes from, the basic premises that immigration has been excessive and sometimes inappropriate, and that illegal immigration from safe countries must be dealt with aggressively, do not represent hate. In my opinion they represent common sense.
Those pesky Jews have a skewed perception of danger and threat
Reform UK pledges to jail bosses employing illegal workers
The party says its aim is to stop companies profiting from illegal workers "without consequences".
www.bbc.co.uk
Reform threatening to jail bosses who employ illegals, and quite right to.
I worked at M&S Bromley for a short while within a couple of weeks joining they sacked 10% of the workforce (30 people) who did not have the correct documentation to work. These people had either arrived on non working visas or were here illegally. Clearly somebody had screwed up in HR and not done their job properly.
Now M&S is a big "well run" company so I can only imagine how many other companies this applies to. I don't believe it was a deliberate policy, although I do wonder if word got around that they were not doing their due diligence?
Then of course there are the businesses which are knowingly doing this. It's no excuse to say checking immigration status is complicated. If you can't do it yourself there are companies out there that have that expertise. Or then again you might want to try giving a job to a local.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
-
England
I tend to stay well clear when Wisbech is in active debate with anyone, but I would like to intervene on the first two points if I may.
The starting point is my view on Gaza. Oct 7 was an atrocity that received no support on here. There are those posters of dimmer mind who claim that any poster who criticized Israel's actions must support the Hamas atrocity. I assume you are of broader mind not to be caught up in that binary simplicity.
Thus, Israel were right to retaliate and seek to secure their border. They were wrong to retaliate to the extent they have and continue to. And to regularly argue that Hamas are to blame for the tens of thousands of innocent collateral deaths as Hamas use them as human shields supports the use of violence to shoot the "shields" out of the way. It also ignores the active atrocities committed by the IDF, not all of which they have managed to suppress despite their best efforts to keep the press out.
Thus, I am criticizing Israel. I am not criticizing Jews. My view is anti this particular government; not the entirety of Judaism or even Zionism.
However, where your argument falls short is my expressed view, or peaceful march, or article in a newspaper is not a petrol bomb on a synagogue. Who has advocated that on here? Your point is not remotely analogous. Your attack on some random Muslim because of the actions of Iran has only the slightest connection with your view on Iran. Your victim is likely to be of Pakistani extraction - wrong country and wrong side of the Islamic divide. Similarly, the increasing antisemitic attacks by British Muslims on Jews in recent years has little real connection with Israel's acts. Protesting outside their embassy and marches carrying anti Israel placards is directly connected. Beating up some random Jew is not. Again, who is supporting that on here?
Your second point is better but I suspect it has something to do with expectation. One demands more from a supposedly western democracy than one does from proscribed terrorists who lucked out in a protest vote 20 years ago but who have long since lost their mandate. If anything, negative stories about Hamas like stealing aid or hiding under hospitals is widely reported and condemned. After all, how else would you know about it? The problem is that much of the negative news was about Israel as they were seeking to bomb millions of Gazans away from their border and existence.
And in terms of the lack of condemnation from Jews, I have tried a few times to discuss this with Jews but they see no further than Oct 7. When asked about the tens of thousands of Gazans killed, they say that is "bullsh1t" and the point is closed down with the clear message that you better not step forward any further. This from a people whose whole identity is informed by millennia of persecution; and where much of its diaspora is surrounded and outnumbered by Muslims. It is surprising they do not call out their effective representatives with a "Not in my name" protest.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
-
England
It may surprise you to know that I agree with this; but I would fine heavily first before further seeking to place any greater burden on our prisons.Reform UK pledges to jail bosses employing illegal workers
The party says its aim is to stop companies profiting from illegal workers "without consequences".
Reform threatening to jail bosses who employ illegals, and quite right to.
I worked at M&S Bromley for a short while within a couple of weeks joining they sacked 10% of the workforce (30 people) who did not have the correct documentation to work. These people had either arrived on non working visas or were here illegally. Clearly somebody had screwed up in HR and not done their job properly.
Now M&S is a big "well run" company so I can only imagine how many other companies this applies to. I don't believe it was a deliberate policy, although I do wonder if word got around that they were not doing their due diligence?
Then of course there are the businesses which are knowingly doing this. It's no excuse to say checking immigration status is complicated. If you can't do it yourself there are companies out there that have that expertise. Or then again you might want to try giving a job to a local.
However, we need legislation to ensure assets held in the names of wives, elderly relatives etc. can be seized and sold to pay fines. Black economy employers who work closely with the people smugglers need to know that a consequence of them engaging illegals is they and their families ending up penniless and on the street.
No greater shame. A more effective deterrent.
georgenorman
Member
- Country
-
England
Do you support Israel's right to exist?
I would think a lot will be non British so we can deport them, they won't have money for substantial fines
steeleye20
Member
- Location
- Croydon
- Country
-
England
'Out on the hustings':-
Owen Jones encounters a typical reform voter:-
Is that a fact?
🙂🙂
Owen Jones encounters a typical reform voter:-
Is that a fact?
🙂🙂