Grooming gangs

[CPFCSaturn]

It's not just people with different political views.

It's a specific political demographic whose views are complicit in enabling these grooming gangs to exist for decades because institutions were afraid of losing their jobs to racism claims.

Not only are those people weak morally, they are malicious.

The only ones who can be left off the hook are those who are misguided and whose political bubble is so restricted that they don't understand the evil that they do. I regard those as the minority.

Ok, but then describing that 'specific political demographic' as 'the left' is completely inaccurate.

I appreciate for many on here 'the left' is an ever-changing bogeyman of a term that applies to the imaginary enemy in their head, but that doesn't make it accurate.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I know. Again, anything to delfect, attack or run away from the truth of it all.

I rarely pop into N&P these days for this very reason, so it's my own fault 🙄

Who is deflecting or running away from anything? So sorry for challenging your view on a forum where people voluntarily exchange views - hopefully that's not too stressful for you.

You've labelled 'the left', of which I consider myself a part of, all sorts of ridiculous things - I've challenged the view, and you've pivoted to explain you didn't' really mean the left in a political sense.

Ok, fine - what's the issue? why are you mad about it?

 

[Stirlingsays]

I know. Again, anything to delfect, attack or run away from the truth of it all.

I rarely pop into N&P these days for this very reason, so it's my own fault 🙄

The more that speak up the better.

So I tip my hat.

It was the bullying and attacks when people spoke up which enabled this national shame over decades.

 

[McAhuna]

Excellent post sir.

The left of the past would be dismayed with the modern progressive left.

I have seen this in my lifetime.

Those now driving the most toxic woke ideologies are simply not the same people who were passionate lefties as teenagers.

Those driving the toxic woke ideologies now overwhelmingly started out as apoltical, bland, middle-class, corporate types - ambitious, rule-obeyers. I honestly think it is the totalitarian angle that appeals to them, a chance to 'police' their peers and set unwritten rule as traps for others to fall foul of.
Real ethics is something alien to them. They put on whatever are the currently fashionable ethics like a costume.

What I would call the 'real' left, mostly became disillusioned and lost their passion for politics.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ok, but then describing that 'specific political demographic' as 'the left' is completely inaccurate.

I appreciate for many on here 'the left' is an ever-changing bogeyman of a term that applies to the imaginary enemy in their head, but that doesn't make it accurate.

I think Nick has already addressed that.

No, it isn't everyone on the left.....but the behaviour of even the mainstream left since this broke has been very poor and designed to deflect and minimise.

We all know the types Nick is referring to.

The Tories hold responsibility for this as well, they just weren't ideologically guilty in enabling it......but they also ignored it.

Justice is coming, it's just a matter of time.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I think Nick has already addressed that.

No, it isn't everyone on the left.....but the behaviour of even the mainstream left since this broke has been very poor.

We all know the types Nick is referring to.

Yes, but accurately describing them matters - a label that could apply to over half of the country is certainly not that.

 

[McAhuna]

Who is deflecting or running away from anything? So sorry for challenging your view on a forum where people voluntarily exchange views - hopefully that's not too stressful for you.

You've labelled 'the left', of which I consider myself a part of, all sorts of ridiculous things - I've challenged the view, and you've pivoted to explain you didn't' really mean the left in a political sense.

Ok, fine - what's the issue? why are you mad about it?

You might not be.
But the likes of Beak and DanH definitely are.

Labelling them as 'left' lets them off the hook, when they are covering for and excusing child torture.

It's not about Right and Left, it's about Right and Wrong.

 

[DanH]

You might not be.
But the likes of Beak and DanH definitely are.

Labelling them as 'left' lets them off the hook, when they are covering for and excusing child torture.

It's not about Right and Left, it's about Right and Wrong.

This is an absolutely disgraceful thing to say. I’ll have an apology when you’re ready. And from the coward who has liked that post.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I think these people are just very weak 'Careerists'.

I have no doubt that if the current Zeitgeist were in a different but equally reprehensible direction, then they would go along with that too.

They are the same template of people who turned a blind eye and waved through concentration camps trains in Nazi Germany, later claiming they knew nothing about it.

Honestly I think you guys give too much credit to these people - the vast majority of people sail through life with very little joined up thinking or serious understanding of politics.

That many people align with a broad world-view that probably feels 'fair' or 'nice' at face value is unsurprising.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Honestly I think you guys give too much credit to these people - the vast majority of people sail through life with very little joined up thinking or serious understanding of politics.

That many people align with a broad world-view that probably feels 'fair' or 'nice' at face value is unsurprising.

That's a very fair summation.

 

[Stirlingsays]

This is an absolutely disgraceful thing to say. I’ll have an apology when you’re ready. And from the coward who has liked that post.

I'm no coward.

Dimwit.

 

[McAhuna]

Honestly I think you guys give too much credit to these people - the vast majority of people sail through life with very little joined up thinking or serious understanding of politics.

That many people align with a broad world-view that probably feels 'fair' or 'nice' at face value is unsurprising.

It would be comforting to think that. I used to think it myself, but unfortunately it's not true.

Ironically, given your words, I think you may be failing to engage with the facts yourself. How do you explain this from the report? This is not just well-meaning naivety, this is proactive support and participation...

 

[McAhuna]

This is an absolutely disgraceful thing to say. I’ll have an apology when you’re ready. And from the coward who has liked that post.

Don't hold your breath.

All your energy seems to be focused on attacking those who expose/condemn the crimes

It seems that you have shown no concern for, or interest in, the victims. Nor any interest in condemning perpetrators or stopping it from continuing.

It's not too late to turn that around, but don't blame others for pointing it out.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It would be comforting to think that. I used to think it myself, but unfortunately it's not true.

Ironically, given your words, I think you may be failing to engage with the facts yourself. How do you explain this from the report? This is not just well-meaning naivety, this is proactive support and participation...

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In what way am I failing to engage with the facts?

I agree that there are an array of individuals, authorities and bodies who went way beyond naivety and should be criminally culpable. But it is still a tiny minority relative to the population, and certainly it is not 'the left' (appreciate you personally have not made that point).

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

This is an absolutely disgraceful thing to say. I’ll have an apology when you’re ready. And from the coward who has liked that post.

Ah, and now he's the victim.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Don't hold your breath.

All your energy seems to be focused on attacking those who expose/condemn the crimes

It seems that you have shown no concern for, or interest in, the victims. Nor any interest in condemning perpetrators or stopping it from continuing.

It's not too late to turn that around, but don't blame others for pointing it out.

He's on here posting that we don't care about the victims.

Yet when the focus comes onto the left....he flips.

 

[McAhuna]

In what way am I failing to engage with the facts?

I agree that there are an array of individuals, authorities and bodies who went way beyond naivety and should be criminally culpable. But it is still a tiny minority relative to the population, and certainly it is not 'the left' (appreciate you personally have not made that point).

I don't think we are actually disagreeing here, but we may be talking about two slightly different things.

1) There were/are people who were in those places and in positions (police, social workers, etc) who know what is going on and actively seek to cover it up. Some even participate. Your earlier explanation of some 'people having a broad world-view that probably feels fair or nice' doesn't begin to explain or excuse their criminal behaviour. Note: I use the present tense because this is still going on.

2) There is a much larger group comprising the general population who by now are aware of the grooming gangs scandal. Many of these struggle to engage with the extent of the horror, some through naivety. I suspect these are the 'people having a broad world-view that probably feels fair or nice' that you refer to.

But within both groups, there are 'grey areas' of complicity. I am talking about those who attack, or even ignore, the whistleblowers - accuse them of racism, etc. The longer this goes on, the more the truth comes to light, the guiltier these people become. There comes a point where they are actively covering or deflecting horrific crimes, helping to create an environment where victims feel they can't come forward, and an environment where the authorities find it difficult to do their job.

 

[DanH]

He's on here posting that we don't care about the victims.

Yet when the focus comes onto the left....he flips.

Your claims would hold more weight if there were also posts about the victims of other rape gangs other than just Muslim/pakistani ones. You care far more about who the perpetrators are than the victims.

Claiming we don’t care about grooming gangs is sick - of course we do. I just don’t reserve my anger towards exclusively one demographic of them to make a wider political point.

 

[cryrst]

It's not just people with different political views.

It's a specific political demographic whose views are complicit in enabling these grooming gangs to exist for decades because institutions were afraid of losing their jobs to racism claims.

Not only are those people weak morally, they are malicious.

The only ones who can be left off the hook are those who are misguided and whose political bubble is so restricted that they don't understand the evil that they do. I regard those as the minority.

Although look deeper and without sounding like an apologist there was a reason these people looked away. Not moral but selfish. We only have our own and our families interests at heart in reality. Would you throw your Mrs out of the life boat to save a drowning kid could be the analogy. Not you personally and it is totally wrong and disgusting to have to make that choice. Cancel culture and labelling can put you and yours in a box under Charing Cross. Or in jail even.
The same scenario with saville, Edward’s, and many more. Self preservation is a strong thing which turns a perfectly good compass into jack sparrows !
Doesn’t make it right though.

 

[McAhuna]

Your claims would hold more weight if there were also posts about the victims of other rape gangs other than just Muslim/pakistani ones. You care far more about who the perpetrators are than the victims.

Claiming we don’t care about grooming gangs is sick - of course we do. I just don’t reserve my anger towards exclusively one demographic of them to make a wider political point.

Have you checked the Epstein thread?

Once you have, do want to come back and apologise for all the 'racism' accusations and insinuations?