Farage faces standards probe into £5m gift

[Stirlingsays]

I think plenty of the criticism of Corbyn was reasonable at it's base, but the campaign against him clearly went well beyond that - if Farage was held to even 50% of that type of scrutiny...

If there were multiple accusations of Corybn hissing at Jewish people and chanting antisemitic songs, I would consider criticism of that behaviour perfectly reasonable... but when it's Farage we have to pretend it's not.

It was worse than accusations we have actual proof of actions that Corbyn took.....as a fully matured adult employed as an MP.

The hearsay accusations against Farage are while he was a teenager.

Corbyn associated with Hamas representatives and others at actual events.....the pictures exist.

These aren't event pictures where he's pictured with someone he doesn't know.....it fits exactly with his Gerry Adams actions. He supports, to some level, terrorist organisations that fit his political alignment.

He wrote a foreword to a book deemed anti semitic.

As I said, I viewed what went on against Corbyn as OTT....at least the extent of it...Lying about people is commonplace in the media. And it's yet another example of power distorting the truth.

However, you have yourself demonstrated that you are part of that for narratives that fit your biases, when the evidence for them is weak. Yet but are willing to criticise those narratives that go too far, if they fit your own biases.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It was worse than accusations we have actual proof of actions that Corbyn took.....as a fully matured adult employed as an MP.

The hearsay accusations against Farage are while he was a teenager.

Corbyn associated with Hamas representatives and others at actual events.....the pictures exist.

These aren't event pictures where he's pictured with someone he doesn't know.....it fits exactly with his Gerry Adams actions. He supports, to some level, terrorist organisations that fit his political alignment.

He wrote a foreword to a book deemed anti semitic.

As I said, I viewed what went on against Corbyn as OTT....at least the extent of it...Lying about people is commonplace in the media. And it's yet another example of power distorting the truth.

However, you have yourself demonstrated that you are part of that for narratives that fit your biases, when the evidence for them is weak. Yet but are willing to criticise those narratives that go too far, if they fit your own biases.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

No, you're just conflating a load of wildly different things and presenting them as the same. Let's not for a second pretend that Corbyn and Farage have ever been held to anything like the same standards by the media.

In relation to antisemitism, the evidence against Farage isn't at all weak - it's multiple, consistent allegations, all underpinned by a letter written over 40 years ago. There's not really any serious suggestion that this stuff didn't happen, even from Farage. The argument is just that he was apparently too young to know any better.

You seem to have really convinced yourself of your own objectivity, and as I said above, I'd suggest some major self-reflection on that.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Farage hasn't offered a new explanation for why a foreign based billionaire felt impassioned to gift him more money than most people will earn in their lifetime - I'm sure you're not naive enough to think people pay out money like that for nothing.

Again, at a time where he was around 10 to 12 percent in the polls.....Not a 'likely PM'.

According to Grok the five million was:

'Initially described as for personal/security reasons; Farage later called it a "reward" for his Brexit campaigning. Harborne has echoed similar sentiments.'

So no real back tracking but an expansion.

Again, not an MP at the time, nothing illegal.

Farage claimed he bought the house, and it turned out he hadn't, so it's very much his actions. How do you think Farage's wife had £800k cash to purchase a house..?

If something is illegal here.....which I suspect there isn't.....then I expect his many enemies will ensure action is taken.

The fact that nothing has happened doesn't speak well to the accusation.

Again, Rayner, still an MP and probably going to be challenging to be MP.

So just more pointless whining from you.

Challenging the conversational use of the word 'everyone' ffs - that's really weak, but you're clearly scratching around here.

Oh it was 'conversational'? Please, use words you mean so that you can be judged on your words.....Being nebulous means you can't be taken seriously.

Do you want to be taken seriously or not?

If you're suggesting you're someone who doesn't let bias override objectivity... I'd suggest some serious self reflection champ. You're here arguing that politicians pocketing £5m gifts is nothing to worry about - a truly absurd position.

What should I be worried about?

There would be revelance if Farage had power and he did this guy favours.

If that happens when Farage has power then you have a case.

However, as he was about as popular as Polanski at the time and about as likely to gain power....you don't.....but maybe the future will show different.....It shouldn't be prejudged.

Yes I am reasonable objective.....far more than you have demonstrated anyway.

I've never been on the BBS.

Fair enough, if that's true I take it back.

 

[Stirlingsays]

No, you're just conflating a load of wildly different things and presenting them as the same. Let's not for a second pretend that Corbyn and Farage have ever been held to anything like the same standards by the media.

In relation to antisemitism, the evidence against Farage isn't at all weak - it's multiple, consistent allegations, all underpinned by a letter written over 40 years ago. There's not really any serious suggestion that this stuff didn't happen, even from Farage. The argument is just that he was apparently too young to know any better.

Even if true...and I suspect it's amplified as no official sanction was taken against Farage.

He was a teenager.

Again, Starmer joined a communist organisation while at university and now is the PM of a capitalist country.

Communists murdered hundreds of millions of people.

You seem to have really convinced yourself of your own objectivity, and as I said above, I'd suggest some major self-reflection on that.

Coming from you, I'll take a pass, thank you.

If someone actually objective said that, I'd look into it.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Again, at a time where he was around 10 to 12 percent in the polls.....Not a 'likely PM'.

According to Grok the five million was:

'Initially described as for personal/security reasons; Farage later called it a "reward" for his Brexit campaigning. Harborne has echoed similar sentiments.'

So no real back tracking but an expansion.

Again, not an MP at the time, nothing illegal.




If something is illegal here.....which I suspect there isn't.....then I expect his many enemies will ensure action is taken.

The fact that nothing has happened doesn't speak well to the accusation.

Again, Rayner, still an MP and probably going to be challenging to be MP.

So just more pointless whining from you.



Oh it was 'conversational'? Please, use words you mean so that you can be judged on your words.....Being nebulous means you can't be taken seriously.

Do you want to be taken seriously or not?



What should I be worried about?

There would be revelance if Farage had power and he did this guy favours.

If that happens when Farage has power then you have a case.

However, as he was about as popular as Polanski at the time and about as likely to gain power....you don't.....but maybe the future will show different.....It shouldn't be prejudged.

Yes I am reasonable objective.....far more than you have demonstrated anyway.




Fair enough, if that's true I take it back.

"No real backtracking", just a completely new and separate explanation after the first one was disbelieved... Mr. Objective over here.

Why do you think an overseas billionaire would want to gift millions of pounds to a politician? Objectively, obviously... just speculate on it.

I don't care if it's illegal, that's never been my argument - the idea that major British politicians accepting multi million pounds gifts from overseas billionaires is nothing to be concerned about is absolute lunacy. You've raised the bar to illegality because obviously it's indefensible morally or logically - illegal was never my argument.

You're also talking about Rayner still being an MP, which is another bar you've introduced out of nowhere - I've never made an argument that Farage shouldn't be an MP. The discussion was about media reaction to the two cases. Rayner got crucified. Farage got a free pass.

But of course, these are all really objective takes.

Are you really pretending the use of 'everyone' in a conversational sense has to literally mean every person..? Talk about desperate 🤣

 

[Stirlingsays]

"No real backtracking", just a completely new and separate explanation after the first one was disbelieved... Mr. Objective over here.

Why do you think an overseas billionaire would want to gift millions of pounds to a politician? Objectively, obviously... just speculate on it.

I literally did......Farage isn't in power, so if there is any future conflict of interest then it can be pursued.

Why does anyone give money to anyone?

Who do you support politically and I'll ask the same question?

We will see what your attitude has been towards any of their significant donors.

I don't care if it's illegal, that's never been my argument - the idea that major British politicians accepting multi million pounds gifts from overseas billionaires is nothing to be concerned about is absolute lunacy. You've raised the bar to illegality because obviously it's indefensible morally or logically - illegal was never my argument.

So all large donations are suspect, even if they are legal.

What claims are you making here.....that a large donation shouldn't be allowed?

I've already mentioned that there can be conflicts of interest with donations and I do have issues with lobbying.....but surely there has to be some evidence of persinal gain first?

As I say, I'm against powerful lobbies.....but I'm against them principly around power.....Not in situtations where someone didn't have it.

There are issues with this idea that large donations can't be made.

How should security be provided to party leaders? How do small parties become larger parties if they can't afford publicity and paying the numbers of staff required.

Should all political donations be banned?.....Are we giving back that money that black rapper guy who donated to universities for all black places? And closing down what he lobbied for?

You're also talking about Rayner still being an MP, which is another bar you've introduced out of nowhere - I've never made an argument that Farage shouldn't be an MP. The discussion was about media reaction to the two cases. Rayner got crucified. Farage got a free pass.

'Introduced out of nowhere'?......yeah because it's relevant.

Rayner had political influence by virtue of being an MP and so can internally lobby for bills and vote on laws.

There's a distinct power difference between being an MP and member of the cabinet and not being an MP and not having any power.

There are literally parliamentary rules against what Rayner did.....If Farage broke them he would also be subject to them. But apparently he didn't.

Sorry but if you can't see the difference I can't help you.

But of course, these are all really objective takes.

I'm afraid you wouldn't really know.

Are you really pretending the use of 'everyone' in a conversational sense has to literally mean every person..? Talk about desperate 🤣

Again, use words you mean as we are all judged on them.

It's not too much to ask.

I accept you didn't mean everyone, we all make mistakes.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I literally did......Farage isn't in power, so if there is any future conflict of interest then it can be pursued.

Why does anyone give money to anyone?

Who do you support politically and I'll ask the same question?

We will see what your attitude has been towards any of their significant donors.




So all large donations are suspect, even if they are legal.

What claims are you making here.....that a large donation shouldn't be allowed?

I've already mentioned that there can be conflicts of interest with donations and I do have issues with lobbying.....but surely there has to be some evidence of persinal gain first?

As I say, I'm against powerful lobbies.....but I'm against them principly around power.....Not in situtations where someone didn't have it.

There are issues with this idea that large donations can't be made.

How should security be provided to party leaders? How do small parties become larger parties if they can't afford publicity and paying the numbers of staff required.

Should all political donations be banned.....Are we giving that black music guy who donated to universities for all black places?



'Introduced out of nowhere'?......yeah because it's relevant.

Rayner had political influence by virtue of being an MP and so can internally lobby for bills and vote on laws.

There's a distinct power difference between being an MP and member of the cabinet and not being an MP and not having any power.

There are literally parliamentary rules against what Rayner did.....If Farage broke them he would also be subject to them. But apparently he didn't.

Sorry but if you can't see the difference I can't help you.



I'm afraid you wouldn't really know.



Again, use words you mean as we are all judged on them.

It's not too much to ask.

I accept you didn't mean everyone, we all make mistakes.

A £5m personal gift is not normal, even in politics - that’s precisely the point. Conflating all political donors with an individual personal gift of that size is not sensible.

I am sure you are not naive enough to think people ‘gift’ £5m for nothing.

If you want to set your bar to ‘well no authority said it was wrong/illegal, so it must be fine’ then good luck to you, but don’t pretend it’s an objective or a sensible take.

No mistakes on my part - you had to jump on a weak semantic to divert. The conversational use of ‘everyone’ is widely understood, and we are not in a courtroom.

 

[Stirlingsays]

A £5m personal gift is not normal, even in politics - that’s precisely the point. Conflating all political donors with an individual personal gift of that size is not sensible.

I am sure you are not naive enough to think people ‘gift’ £5m for nothing.

I asked you who do you support politically.

You didn't answer.

If you want to set your bar to ‘well no authority said it was wrong/illegal, so it must be fine’ then good luck to you, but don’t pretend it’s an objective or a sensible take.

?

Again, no answer to the points raised.

Again, if wrong doing is proven then I always support appropriate censor.

All you have is whining and you don't answer points raised.

No mistakes on my part - you had to jump on a weak semantic to divert. The conversational use of ‘everyone’ is widely understood, and we are not in a courtroom.

No, sorry it wasn't weak at all.

If you use the word 'everyone', when the reality isn't even most then you deserve pushback.

I'll state again.

Farage received no official punishment for anything you state. If what he did was so terrible then this would have happened.

You just have no objectivity and you have proven multiple times on this forum that your contributions can't be taken seriously.

I'm bored with replying to you so have your last word because I'll just let it pass.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I asked you who do you support politically.

You didn't answer.



?

Again, no answer to the points raised.

Again, if wrong doing is proven then I always support appropriate censor.

All you have is whining and you don't answer points raised.




No, sorry it wasn't weak at all.

If you use the word 'everyone', when the reality isn't even most then you deserve pushback.

I'll state again.

Farage received no official punishment for anything you state. If what he did was so terrible then this would have happened.

You just have no objectivity and you have proven multiple times on this forum that your contributions can't be taken seriously.

I'm bored with replying to you so have your last word because I'll just let it pass.

I didn’t have you down as someone who needs an authority to tell them when something stinks, but there we are. I look forward to seeing that principle consistently applied.

I’ve never claimed to be objective.

But it is objectively hilarious that you have convinced yourself that you are.