Iran

[Spindle]

I hope Trump is bluffing over NATO. I suspect he is but will see. It’s pressure for us to spend more and he is right. Russia just sailed a war ship through the English Channel unchallenged. That is a joke.

I think that protecting Israel is in America’s interests. It is a key ally in the region and that is reason enough. The risk Iran poses to world peace is a debatable subject. I think they would get nukes given time and then we have a problem. America didn’t keep us in the loop because they don’t trust us. Can you blame them? Our government is full of Islamist sympathisers.

You say unchallenged but they have a right to, and we'd have had a P8 all over it throughout that passage.

 

[kevlee]

The latest developments overnight are depressing. It seems that this war will end when Netanyahu says so, not when the US thinks it should. Trump needs to stand up to him and tell him to fall into line and give the peace talks a chance..

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Don't forget section 1250a National Defence Authorisation Act 2024, as mentioned before.

I haven't forgotten it.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The latest developments overnight are depressing. It seems that this war will end when Netanyahu says so, not when the US thinks it should. Trump needs to stand up to him and tell him to fall into line and give the peace talks a chance..

Israel is entitled to defend itself irrespective of what America does.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You say unchallenged but they have a right to, and we'd have had a P8 all over it throughout that passage.

Granted, but I doubt this would be happening if our Prime Minister wasn't weak. This was a deliberate provocation and proof that Russia can transport anything they want without fear. We should not have threatened to seize dodgy tankers in the first place if we were just going to do nothing.

 

[eaglesdare]

Granted, but I doubt this would be happening if our Prime Minister wasn't weak. This was a deliberate provocation and proof that Russia can transport anything they want without fear. We should not have threatened to seize dodgy tankers in the first place if we were just going to do nothing.

I heard he is off to Germany next week to work on the WW2 peace treaty....

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I heard he is off to Germany next week to work on the WW2 peace treaty....

A doomed man trying to look important.

 

[beak]

The latest developments overnight are depressing. It seems that this war will end when Netanyahu says so, not when the US thinks it should. Trump needs to stand up to him and tell him to fall into line and give the peace talks a chance..

Hezbollah have never been part of Iran according to the Irans the title of the thread is Iran Lebanon is a separate country geographically and after Iran's war with the U.S.A. it will eventually be settled but If Iran wants to say that Hezbollah are their troops it starts another ball game. So why proxies?

 

[silvertop]

We aren't going to agree on this one mate.

America isn't looking after its interests at all.

It's looking after Israel's interests.

Iran was no threat to America.

America aren't backing out of Nato for three reasons mate, one they sell the Europeans their weapons and that would stop, second they would lose the client status of the Europeans and wouldn't be able to rely upon support in many many areas....it would hurt us and also them. Second, their bases in the region would have to go along with their influence and investment and lastly a diminished role in Europe would be taken by both Russia and China......Russia's cheap gas and Chinese investment.

Trump is all mouth and trousers on this one.....if he did pull out it would be performative, as the next president would just rejoin for the above reasons.

Europe did back America, we just aren't going to fight and die for Israel's war aims, especially when the war wasn't consulted with us and ends up costing us economically.

You think we should thanking Trump?

Agree all the above.

However, (by way of devil's advocate and probably absurd hypothetical) it would play well to his base to pull out completely from Europe. Pull out of NATO, close down all the military bases and leave those Europeans to it.

I am not sure that would raise the risk levels for Europe? There is no dominant menacing military presence on the Continent itching to expand. The Royal Navy could probably deal with their Russian counterpart on their own. That is now, let alone in 5 years when the surface fleet has been updated. Add on the French and their fleet would not leave port.

And their army is mighty and large but, traditionally, they are defensive rather than aggressive. And only then their ambition would stretch no further than taking states previously within the USSR to provide that defensive buffer.

Also, they have tried to take a relatively weak neighbour state (with that purpose) and have laboured at the task for years without any quick victory in sight. Imagine had they sought to take on a combined European force head on?

Meanwhile, western forces have trained the Ukrainians and fought the Russians proxy through them. They have learned exactly how to defeat them.

The Europeans would have to upgrade its militaries and would have to work better hand in hand as a lack of cohesive unity was one of the major reasons France fell in only 6 weeks in 1940. However, it would not be a disaster for us, save for those economies local to the bases. France has done fine since De Gaulle booted the Americans out.

The main threat to us is now from a dirty bomb or chemical/biological terrorism that the absence or presence of the Americans is indifferent. Stay, go, either way we will make do.

Like you said, won't happen.

 

[silvertop]

Hezbollah have never been part of Iran according to the Irans the title of the thread is Iran Lebanon is a separate country geographically and after Iran's war with the U.S.A. it will eventually be settled but If Iran wants to say that Hezbollah are their troops it starts another ball game. So why proxies?

The USA gave their 15 point plan, Iran gave their 10 point plan.

I am not sure where Israel sit in this. Was it ever a tri-partite arrangement?

 

[kevlee]

Hezbollah have never been part of Iran according to the Irans the title of the thread is Iran Lebanon is a separate country geographically and after Iran's war with the U.S.A. it will eventually be settled but If Iran wants to say that Hezbollah are their troops it starts another ball game. So why proxies?

The Pakistan leader's post on X was that the ceasefire was to apply everywhere, including Lebanon.
As the wording hasn't been made public it remains unclear with both sides making claims and counterclaims. Looking at it objectively, it would make sense for Israel to give it a chance, rather than continue, but I suppose Israel see it differently and a means to increase the pressure on Iran.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041665043423752651

 

[McAhuna]

The Pakistan leader's post on X was that the ceasefire was to apply everywhere, including Lebanon.
As the wording hasn't been made public it remains unclear with both sides making claims and counterclaims. Looking at it objectively, it would make sense for Israel to give it a chance, rather than continue, but I suppose Israel see it differently and a means to increase the pressure on Iran.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041665043423752651

Asking Israel to respect an agreed ceasefire is like asking Trump not to change his mind

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The Pakistan leader's post on X was that the ceasefire was to apply everywhere, including Lebanon.
As the wording hasn't been made public it remains unclear with both sides making claims and counterclaims. Looking at it objectively, it would make sense for Israel to give it a chance, rather than continue, but I suppose Israel see it differently and a means to increase the pressure on Iran.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041665043423752651

I don't think anyone is serious about ceasefires.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Asking Israel to respect an agreed ceasefire is like asking Trump not to change his mind

Here we go. It's all Israel's fault.

Nothing to do with endless attacks on them from years.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Agree all the above.

However, (by way of devil's advocate and probably absurd hypothetical) it would play well to his base to pull out completely from Europe. Pull out of NATO, close down all the military bases and leave those Europeans to it.

I am not sure that would raise the risk levels for Europe? There is no dominant menacing military presence on the Continent itching to expand. The Royal Navy could probably deal with their Russian counterpart on their own. That is now, let alone in 5 years when the surface fleet has been updated. Add on the French and their fleet would not leave port.

And their army is mighty and large but, traditionally, they are defensive rather than aggressive. And only then their ambition would stretch no further than taking states previously within the USSR to provide that defensive buffer.

Also, they have tried to take a relatively weak neighbour state (with that purpose) and have laboured at the task for years without any quick victory in sight. Imagine had they sought to take on a combined European force head on?

Meanwhile, western forces have trained the Ukrainians and fought the Russians proxy through them. They have learned exactly how to defeat them.

The Europeans would have to upgrade its militaries and would have to work better hand in hand as a lack of cohesive unity was one of the major reasons France fell in only 6 weeks in 1940. However, it would not be a disaster for us, save for those economies local to the bases. France has done fine since De Gaulle booted the Americans out.

The main threat to us is now from a dirty bomb or chemical/biological terrorism that the absence or presence of the Americans is indifferent. Stay, go, either way we will make do.

Like you said, won't happen.

You seriously trust our NATO friends to get organised without American support? Good luck.

Fortunately, it is highly likely that Trump is just negotiating.

 

[beak]

The Pakistan leader's post on X was that the ceasefire was to apply everywhere, including Lebanon.
As the wording hasn't been made public it remains unclear with both sides making claims and counterclaims. Looking at it objectively, it would make sense for Israel to give it a chance, rather than continue, but I suppose Israel see it differently and a means to increase the pressure on Iran.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041665043423752651

The Pakistan leaders statement hasn't aged well has it. So are Iran claiming that they run Hezbollah or not?

 

[kevlee]

The Pakistan leaders statement hasn't aged well has it. So are Iran claiming that they run Hezbollah or not?

I've not heard them claim that they run it, but its common knowledge they fund it.
Re Shariff's statement, well he was the guy who supposedly set up the deal. Maybe he doesn't know what deal he brokered.
Surely they wrote it down and signed something and if so why doesn't someone release a copy so we can all see what it says. Or is that too simple?

 

[elgin eeagle]

I don't listen to what the BBC have to say. I hear the argument about NATO creep, but that's because those nations feared the Soviets and they want autonomy. Yes the west tries to do things that benefit the west, but a couple? Nope, that's true propaganda.

You've lost me with the couple comment.
Most of the Ukraine didn't want autonomy, they all speak Russian and had a democratically elected leader in Yanokovych that the people in the east voted in via the Party of the Regions and were happy with.

The problem was he didn't want European integration which pissed off the young idiots in the west of the country. Enter the west with another eventual colour revolution and the rest is bloody history.

Since then you've had 12 years of constant anti russian propaganda on Ukrainian television and most in the East have left or fear conscription to the military. It won't end anytime soon because like I said before, the Ukraine is existential to Russians. It's always been Russian and will always be Russian. The west has no claim to it whatsoever no matter what bullshit the BBC fabricates.

Its got nothing to do with territory either, Russia has more territory than it knows what to do with. Its very valid security guarantees were constantly ignored by NATO though, and that matters a great deal to them. One day you will see all this is true. Or maybe you won't as unless you venture deeply into telegram you won't read or hear the other side of the story.

Personally I don't care and am only on this thread to read about Iran and hope they give Trump and Israel several bloody noses.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You've lost me with the couple comment.
Most of the Ukraine didn't want autonomy, they all speak Russian and had a democratically elected leader in Yanokovych that the people in the east voted in via the Party of the Regions and were happy with.

The problem was he didn't want European integration which pissed off the young idiots in the west of the country. Enter the west with another eventual colour revolution and the rest is bloody history.

Since then you've had 12 years of constant anti russian propaganda on Ukrainian television and most in the East have left or fear conscription to the military. It won't end anytime soon because like I said before, the Ukraine is existential to Russians. It's always been Russian and will always be Russian. The west has no claim to it whatsoever no matter what bullshit the BBC fabricates.

Its got nothing to do with territory either, Russia has more territory than it knows what to do with. Its very valid security guarantees were constantly ignored by NATO though, and that matters a great deal to them. One day you will see all this is true. Or maybe you won't as unless you venture deeply into telegram you won't read or hear the other side of the story.

Personally I don't care and am only on this thread to read about Iran and hope they give Trump and Israel several bloody noses.

Well, I'm afraid old friend, that is all we need to know about you.

You are British but cheer on our enemies.

 

[elgin eeagle]

Well, I'm afraid old friend, that is all we need to know about you.

You are British but cheer on our enemies.

They aren't my enemies. Depends what kind of world you want to live in I guess. Reading some of your posts it's fairly apparent what kind of world that is.