Reform

silvertop said:
Cant really blame them. The vast majority of the parliamentary party were Remainers. What would you do if you passionately held a view opposite to the majority of the Tory rank and file?

You either resign, get culled, or toe the line as the Party pivots to capture the popular vote.

Also, was their position really as disingenuous/insincere as you suggest? They were, after all, voted in to represent the views of their constituents. Surely, this was our imperfect democracy at work.
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But not to reflect them, which is the problem.....Cameron ensured that, aside from ethnic intake, all the candidates would reflect his 'wet' type of Conservative.....So the MP intake became just variations of Cameronites.

But the Tory base, on average, was quite further to the right than Cameron.

A party, left or right, that is fighting with its base is doomed to failure.

The Tories and indeed Labour lied to their base and essentially deserve what is happening to them.
 
Remember this when anyone on the remainer ticket tries to convince you that leaving the EU was a bad thing.

Outside of the EU and the ECHR, we can choose to send all of them back if we choose to.....Inside the EU we can't.
 

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silvertop said:
Cant really blame them. The vast majority of the parliamentary party were Remainers. What would you do if you passionately held a view opposite to the majority of the Tory rank and file?

You either resign, get culled, or toe the line as the Party pivots to capture the popular vote.

Also, was their position really as disingenuous/insincere as you suggest? They were, after all, voted in to represent the views of their constituents. Surely, this was our imperfect democracy at work.
Click to expand...
That old wrong headed assertion rears it’s head again!

MPs are not delegates. They are representatives. They aren’t voted in to just parrot the views of their constituents. They are there to represent their interests. Which means determining, after researching and consulting, what are the best outcomes for those they represent.

Their job is not to give the people what they want! It’s to give them what they need.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
That old wrong headed assertion rears it’s head again!

MPs are not delegates. They are representatives. They aren’t voted in to just parrot the views of their constituents. They are there to represent their interests. Which means determining, after researching and consulting, what are the best outcomes for those they represent.

Their job is not to give the people what they want! It’s to give them what they need.
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What we need is far less government.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Remember this when anyone on the remainer ticket tries to convince you that leaving the EU was a bad thing.

Outside of the EU and the ECHR, we can choose to send all of them back if we choose to.....Inside the EU we can't.
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who is the “all” you’d send back? It would get so messy for reform if they actually ever got into power and tried to do this (spoiler alert: they never will) but if they did… where do you draw the line between who IS and ISN’T British? I think anyone born here is a British citizen has the right to live in this country without further question about getting deported. first generation migrants that have recently been arriving maybe not so much
 
viapalace said:
who is the “all” you’d send back? It would get so messy for reform if they actually ever got into power and tried to do this (spoiler alert: they never will) but if they did… where do you draw the line between who IS and ISN’T British? I think anyone born here is a British citizen has the right to live in this country without further question about getting deported. first generation migrants that have recently been arriving maybe not so much
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I think you're right. The media and Karen pushback will be unbelievable. Where will overweight women get a partner for a few months before he disappears? Vote loser for sure.
 
viapalace said:
who is the “all” you’d send back? It would get so messy for reform if they actually ever got into power and tried to do this (spoiler alert: they never will) but if they did… where do you draw the line between who IS and ISN’T British? I think anyone born here is a British citizen has the right to live in this country without further question about getting deported. first generation migrants that have recently been arriving maybe not so much
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In reference to your who is or isn't British & the right to live here, I was born in Bermuda & I am British, am I allowed to live in the UK? My parents were both born in England, my father was in the RAF, stationed out there, so . . .
 
Stirlingsays said:
Remember this when anyone on the remainer ticket tries to convince you that leaving the EU was a bad thing.

Outside of the EU and the ECHR, we can choose to send all of them back if we choose to.....Inside the EU we can't.
Click to expand...
The flip side of this is that the EU operates a policy of one member rejects an application for asylum/entry and the ruling applies to all member state.

The applicant has a number of choices, one of which is head for a non EU member state and apply afresh. Many of those who ride the boats are just that.

We left the EU on 31 Jan 2010. You only have to look at the graph showing boat crossings to see the correlation. Not something Farage says aloud.

He is also very quiet about the stats. Immigrants (not students or small boat people) minus emigrants is around zero. The numbers balance. Something of an inconvenient truth.

And if you are really complaining about the "quality" of immigrants and the harming of our ethnicity, religion, values and culture I am on your side. However, those who voted leave inadvertently elected to replace mobile, literate European migrants with immobile, often illiterate, non EU migrants. The definition of an unintended consequence.

And if you want the definition of irony, Leavers will readily blame "elites" "progressives" and "lefties" for the state we are in. No self inspection or peak at the mirror whatsoever.

PS I am aware I am wasting my breath as most posters on here will read: "BLAH BLAH BLAH migrants are all lovely BLAH BLAH BLAH full open door policy BLAH BLAH BLAH I love Tony Blaire BLAH BLAH BLAH all Leavers are NAZIs" etc. However, it felt cathartic to write it.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
That old wrong headed assertion rears it’s head again!

MPs are not delegates. They are representatives. They aren’t voted in to just parrot the views of their constituents. They are there to represent their interests. Which means determining, after researching and consulting, what are the best outcomes for those they represent.

Their job is not to give the people what they want! It’s to give them what they need.
Click to expand...
Yes, you have defined our patrician system of representation. I know that. However, it is hard to argue with Stirling when he says that a party that divorces from its base is doomed to fail
 
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