US Politics

[Stirlingsays]

let's look at the full context....ICE agents were conducting lawful operations in a tense, chaotic scene with protesters interfering. The driver refused commands to exit, then maneuvered the car in a way that put an agent in immediate danger. A split second decision was made. I'm sure there is a law that an officer can use self defence if they think their life is in danger?

As I've said previously my view on it is that the woman acted dangerously and recklessly, and also the ICE agent drew and shot his weapon a bit too fast. Could the officer have simply side stepped the vehicle?
A tragedy and a sad loss of life.

I do have some questions tho why was the woman there in the first place? Was she following ICE agents all day? Was she blocking ICE cars? Or was she simply caught in the wrong place wrong time? Does she have a wife? And was she on the pavement recording all this? If so why?

Excellent summary.

The only observation I'll add is that I think the media and legal professions almost deliberately exclude the stress split second element to what happens.

You are completely correct in what you say about why was she there. However, if we ignore that and just focus on what happens.....We see that an Ice agent puts his hand on her door, seemingly wanting to open it. She seems to bulk at that and drive off and into the path of another Ice agent.....deliberate or panic?

Probably panic.....People panic in stress situations....most people do and it's actually a minority of people who don't (unless it's something they are use to).

I've seen this with car drivers several times when people (they view with malign intent) touch their cars. They speed off and often if people are close they get run over.....and if I'm honest I think it's panic rather than a deliberate intent to kill. But we have seen those people given life sentences in some cases.....that weren't manslaughter verdicts.

I think you are right, she shouldn't have been there and ended up....probably via panic.....putting an Ice agent in danger.....and he over-reacted in that moment of danger (he moved quicker than most to avoid a full hit) and now she's dead.

Sad all round, I don't celebrate it......but I remember the left on defending that cop shooting that woman on the stairs in the neck when they were under no danger from her.....and the left defended that to the nines. The Democrats cleared that guy and much of their supporters celebrated him.

So nothing they say is worth listening to on this.....We have to be better judges than them and at least judge it fairly.

 

[eaglesdare]

Excellent summary.

The only observation I'll add is that I think the media and legal professions almost deliberately exclude the stress split second element to what happens.

You are completely correct in what you say about why was she there. However, if we ignore that and just focus on what happens.....We see that an Ice agent puts his hand on her door, seemingly wanting to open it. She seems to bulk at that and drive off and into the path of another Ice agent.....deliberate or panic?

Probably panic.....People panic in stress situations....most people do and it's actually a minority of people who don't (unless it's something they are use to).

I've seen this with car drivers several times when people (they view with malign intent) touch their cars. They speed off and often if people are close they get run over.....and if I'm honest I think it's panic rather than a deliberate intent to kill. But we have seen those people given life sentences in some cases.....that weren't manslaughter verdicts.

I think you are right, she shouldn't have been there and ended up....probably via panic.....putting an Ice agent in danger.....and he over-reacted in that moment of danger (he moved quicker than most to avoid a full hit) and now she's dead.

Sad all round, I don't celebrate it......but I remember the left on defending that cop shooting that woman on the stairs in the neck when they were under no danger from her.....and the left defended that to the nines. The Democrats cleared that guy and much of their supporters celebrated him.

So nothing they say is worth listening to on this.....We have to be better judges than them and at least judge it fairly.

I agree with everything you said. And yes thinking on it again after you said and looking at the video again it she probably drove off in a panic when the ICE officer came up to her door and did not intentionally want to drive over the guy.

Very high stress situation on both the woman and the officer. Very sad all round.

 

[HKOwen]

Excellent summary.

The only observation I'll add is that I think the media and legal professions almost deliberately exclude the stress split second element to what happens.

You are completely correct in what you say about why was she there. However, if we ignore that and just focus on what happens.....We see that an Ice agent puts his hand on her door, seemingly wanting to open it. She seems to bulk at that and drive off and into the path of another Ice agent.....deliberate or panic?

Probably panic.....People panic in stress situations....most people do and it's actually a minority of people who don't (unless it's something they are use to).

I've seen this with car drivers several times when people (they view with malign intent) touch their cars. They speed off and often if people are close they get run over.....and if I'm honest I think it's panic rather than a deliberate intent to kill. But we have seen those people given life sentences in some cases.....that weren't manslaughter verdicts.

I think you are right, she shouldn't have been there and ended up....probably via panic.....putting an Ice agent in danger.....and he over-reacted in that moment of danger (he moved quicker than most to avoid a full hit) and now she's dead.

Sad all round, I don't celebrate it......but I remember the left on defending that cop shooting that woman on the stairs in the neck when they were under no danger from her.....and the left defended that to the nines. The Democrats cleared that guy and much of their supporters celebrated him.

So nothing they say is worth listening to on this.....We have to be better judges than them and at least judge it fairly.

She brought this upon herself. Sad when anyone dies but FAFO

BBC news playing anti ICE news reports from US

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Are you suggesting he didn’t? So far as I am aware it’s an ongoing, unfinished process that he has determined such a priority as to demand no distractions from the need to campaign.

What I'm suggesting is that the buck stops somewhere and in this case it's with him.

 

[Stirlingsays]

She brought this upon herself. Sad when anyone dies but FAFO

BBC news playing anti ICE news reports from US

She willingly put herself in a dangerous situation.....could have killed or hurt someone and ended up getting shot.

Sad all round, she has a young kid, what on earth was she doing confronting Ice agents?

Dim?....And/or that weird sense that some Karens have that moral outrage is somehow going to protect them from bad outcomes.

Difficult to say.

 

[HKOwen]

She willingly put herself in a dangerous situation.....could have killed or hurt someone and ended up getting shot.

Sad all round, she has a young kid, what on earth was she doing confronting Ice agents?

Dim?....And/or that weird sense that some Karens have that moral outrage is somehow going to protect them from bad outcomes.

Difficult to say.

Her self righteous virtue signalling was her downfall. The mayor of Minneapolis is a disgrace.

This will take the massive Somalian fraud and corruption scandal off the front pages for a day or two in Minn.

That state is a real state so to speak.

 

[eaglesdare]

She brought this upon herself. Sad when anyone dies but FAFO

BBC news playing anti ICE news reports from US

I go onto the BBC news website and its all Minnesota, trump trump trump, vance, little bit of Russia and a little bit of Venezuela.

Contrast to say.....GB news even tho it has its own bias there's actually UK news and a red weather hurricane warning for cornwall.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Lets not forget the initial videos of the Manchester Airport incident that were put up on social media. However people were keen to jump on the police brutality bandwagon, how wrong they were.

This wasn’t on social media. It was on BBC Verify. Here is the link:-

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I go onto the BBC news website and its all Minnesota, trump trump trump, vance, little bit of Russia and a little bit of Venezuela.

Contrast to say.....GB news even tho it has its own bias there's actually UK news and a red weather hurricane warning for cornwall.

The lead story on BBC TV news this evening was the red warning for us. Which I got on my phone earlier.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

What I'm suggesting is that the buck stops somewhere and in this case it's with him.

And he accepts that and is dealing with it. Very honourably in my view.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I agree with everything you said. And yes thinking on it again after you said and looking at the video again it she probably drove off in a panic when the ICE officer came up to her door and did not intentionally want to drive over the guy.

Very high stress situation on both the woman and the officer. Very sad all round.

There was no obvious panic from anyone. The car moved slowly.

 

[Common Sense Club]

I go onto the BBC news website and its all Minnesota, trump trump trump, vance, little bit of Russia and a little bit of Venezuela.

Contrast to say.....GB news even tho it has its own bias there's actually UK news and a red weather hurricane warning for cornwall.

I have started to wonder whether the main news outlets base their online story placings using AI to trawl the internet to see what stories are being searched for the most.
It presumably then matches in with what people want to read. Not necessarily a good advert if they are just reacting; there should be an element of proactive journalism to inform us of what is going on’ particularly in the UK.
As an example, I would imagine most people here are concerned about the red weather warning in the South West which is current and the amber warnings elsewhere, not something happening in Minnesota.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

And he accepts that and is dealing with it. Very honourably in my view.

Not as honourable as stepping down.

 

[eaglesdare]

The lead story on BBC TV news this evening was the red warning for us. Which I got on my phone earlier.

Good for you. Take care.

 

[eaglesdare]

I have started to wonder whether the main news outlets base their online story placings using AI to trawl the internet to see what stories are being searched for the most.
It presumably then matches in with what people want to read. Not necessarily a good advert if they are just reacting; there should be an element of proactive journalism to inform us of what is going on’ particularly in the UK.
As an example, I would imagine most people here are concerned about the red weather warning in the South West which is current and the amber warnings elsewhere, not something happening in Minnesota.

At least sky news top story is about the storm. A small bit from the US and it's largely UK news.

 

[HKOwen]

I have started to wonder whether the main news outlets base their online story placings using AI to trawl the internet to see what stories are being searched for the most.
It presumably then matches in with what people want to read. Not necessarily a good advert if they are just reacting; there should be an element of proactive journalism to inform us of what is going on’ particularly in the UK.
As an example, I would imagine most people here are concerned about the red weather warning in the South West which is current and the amber warnings elsewhere, not something happening in Minnesota.

Good shout

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

She willingly put herself in a dangerous situation.....could have killed or hurt someone and ended up getting shot.

Sad all round, she has a young kid, what on earth was she doing confronting Ice agents?

Dim?....And/or that weird sense that some Karens have that moral outrage is somehow going to protect them from bad outcomes.

Difficult to say.

Why was it dangerous? Even if she was making some kind of protest that ought not be dangerous. Peaceful protest is legal. It might be disruptive and annoying but that’s just the price of democracy. There were perfectly legal ways to have quietly removed her and/or her car without the need for anything more than minimal force, if such force was necessary.

The defence I just watched from Vance and that bimbo press secretary was disgusting. It didn’t even attempt to look at the event itself but just tried to blame Democrats and “lefties” for obstructing ICE in their pursuit of “criminal immigrants.” It was blatantly transparent in the attempt to avoid responsibility and divert attention. Will they get away with it? I think they are going to struggle.

 

[HKOwen]

There was no obvious panic from anyone. The car moved slowly.The least qualified

Now Wisbech eejit is an expert on analysing video footage of vehicles moving in a dangerous manner.

Hilarious irony bearing in mind his driving history

2026 is going to be another year of his attention seeking nonsense, hey ho

 

[Badger11]

I have started to wonder whether the main news outlets base their online story placings using AI to trawl the internet to see what stories are being searched for the most.
It presumably then matches in with what people want to read. Not necessarily a good advert if they are just reacting; there should be an element of proactive journalism to inform us of what is going on’ particularly in the UK.
As an example, I would imagine most people here are concerned about the red weather warning in the South West which is current and the amber warnings elsewhere, not something happening in Minnesota.

Correct, Microsoft News sacked their reporters and now rely on AI to just repeat stories from other outlets. A number of other media sites do the same. Whether the main news sites do it's only a matter of time.

Of course what selection criteria the AI uses is the question.

I was told by a reporter that the bulk of most news stories these days are actually press releases or advert pushes which are disguised as news stories. In that case cut out the middle man (the journalist).

 

[eaglesdare]

Why was it dangerous? Even if she was making some kind of protest that ought not be dangerous. Peaceful protest is legal. It might be disruptive and annoying but that’s just the price of democracy. There were perfectly legal ways to have quietly removed her and/or her car without the need for anything more than minimal force, if such force was necessary.

The defence I just watched from Vance and that bimbo press secretary was disgusting. It didn’t even attempt to look at the event itself but just tried to blame Democrats and “lefties” for obstructing ICE in their pursuit of “criminal immigrants.” It was blatantly transparent in the attempt to avoid responsibility and divert attention. Will they get away with it? I think they are going to struggle.

I have some questions for you with regards to US law:

1. Can a vehicle can be a dangerous or deadly weapon if used in a way capable of causing death or serious injury?

2. Can ICE agents order or forcibly remove you from your car? Can refusal lead to force?

3. Can ICE arrest a citizen for obstructing their work if it involves forcibly resisting, impeding, or interfering with federal officers?

4. Is obstructing a highway or public passage a crime under state law, and a federal crime if the intent is to obstruct federal law enforcement?