Israel v Hamas

steeleye20 said:
'UN commission of inquiry finds Israel committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza'.

The accusation of genocide is made by the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

The commission, which has been studying the conduct of Israel since the Hamas attacks of 7 October 2023, has concluded that Israel has committed four of the five acts laid out in the Genocide Convention.

It confirms Israel has been killing Palestinians or forcing them to live in inhumane conditions that led to death; causing serious bodily or mental harm, including through torture, displacement and sexual crime; deliberately imposing inhumane conditions, and fourthly, imposing measures intending to prevent births.
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Saturn says he doesn't know who is counting so this is unproven
 
Spindle said:
Saturn says he doesn't know who is counting so this is unproven
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Bear with me here because this is apparently really, really complicated to understand, but a population count and a death count are two completely different things.

Death count - everyone, now including IDF commanders, stating roughly the same numbers.

Population count - there is not an accurate population count, despite you claiming over and over again (with zero proof) that it’s increasing.
 
Israel, earlier this month, warned civillians to evacuate of Gaza City:
“To all residents of Gaza City and all its neighborhoods, from the Old City and Tuffah in the east to the sea in the west. The IDF is determined to defeat Hamas and will operate in the Gaza City area with great force, just as it did throughout the Strip ... For your safety, evacuate immediately via the Rashid axis toward the humanitarian zone in Al-Mawasi,”.
Leaflets carrying the message, which included a map directing residents across northern Gaza to travel westward to the coast before going south, were also dropped across the north.
 
georgenorman said:
Israel, earlier this month, warned civillians to evacuate of Gaza City:
“To all residents of Gaza City and all its neighborhoods, from the Old City and Tuffah in the east to the sea in the west. The IDF is determined to defeat Hamas and will operate in the Gaza City area with great force, just as it did throughout the Strip ... For your safety, evacuate immediately via the Rashid axis toward the humanitarian zone in Al-Mawasi,”.
Leaflets carrying the message, which included a map directing residents across northern Gaza to travel westward to the coast before going south, were also dropped across the north.
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Israel issues warnings to civilians by dropping leaflets, making phone calls, sending texts, and "roof knocking". Some of this was done in the Gulf War and in Kosovo but nowhere as advanced and precise and the IDF must be credited for this.
 
The report is intended to be detailed and damning, presenting evidence it says shows that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. It says that Israel has breached the Genocide Convention that was passed in 1948 by the newly established United Nations. The word genocide, and the convention that defined it as a crime, were directly inspired by the genocide of six million Jews by Nazi Germany. (BBC Website 16.9.25)

Meanwhile,...

Gaza residents have described last night as “hell” as Israel's prime minister confirms that a "powerful operation" has been launched in Gaza City.
Israeli warplanes carried out a wave of heavy airstrikes overnight across Gaza City, with concentrated bombardment on the central al-Daraj neighbourhood, the Beach refugee camp in the west, and Sheikh Radwan in the north.
The attacks were accompanied by artillery fire, drone attacks and helicopter gunship activity, leaving residents describing the night as “hell". (BBC 16.9.25)
 
CPFCSaturn said:
So you accept that your claim that you have repeatedly made that the population in Gaza has increased was bollocks.

Thanks for playing.
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You aren't smart are you. The point was that there's no genocide.

You either accept the figures, which proves a population increase OR you don't accept the figures in which case there is no evidence of genocide.

Tell you what is a genocide though, 1 million Jews being persecuted out of the Arab world since 1948. Only Muslim violence could do that.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Israel issues warnings to civilians by dropping leaflets, making phone calls, sending texts, and "roof knocking". Some of this was done in the Gulf War and in Kosovo but nowhere as advanced and precise and the IDF must be credited for this.
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It's a poor tactic if your aim is to wipe out a population.
 
georgenorman said:
Being on the Left makes you an antisemite.
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Where is the winking emoji to say you are joking?

Assuming it was a "serious" comment...

Firstly I am not left, only left of you.

Secondly, only one generation ago (and back back back) the "right" were the antisemites. Still are.

Thirdly, there is no correlation between the actual Left and antisemitism.

You can do better.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Israel issues warnings to civilians by dropping leaflets, making phone calls, sending texts, and "roof knocking". Some of this was done in the Gulf War and in Kosovo but nowhere as advanced and precise and the IDF must be credited for this.
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Isrsel is not entitled to anything, Palestine is not their country this is an illegal occupation.

'Go back to your own country' - Alan Duncan.
 
silvertop said:
Where is the winking emoji to say you are joking?

Assuming it was a "serious" comment...

Firstly I am not left, only left of you.

Secondly, only one generation ago (and back back back) the "right" were the antisemites. Still are.

Thirdly, there is no correlation between the actual Left and antisemitism.

You can do better.
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Notice the way that, for some on here, being against the current Israeli government policy automatically makes you an antisemite. Not against government policy but a Jew hater.
 
Spindle said:
You aren't smart are you. The point was that there's no genocide.

You either accept the figures, which proves a population increase OR you don't accept the figures in which case there is no evidence of genocide.

Tell you what is a genocide though, 1 million Jews being persecuted out of the Arab world since 1948. Only Muslim violence could do that.
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I’m assuming you’re just being disingenuous and not actually this thick.

A) you have not provided any figures or proof of population increase - you’ve just said it a few times and seem to think that makes it a fact.

B) I’ll try this complicated logic again: death count and population count are two different things - conflating them both as ‘figures’ to be accepted doesn’t make any sense. I accept the death count as provided by the IDF commander. I don’t accept a population count because it doesn’t exist.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Under international law, "indiscriminate attacks" are those not directed at a specific military target. Israel repeatedly states its targets are Hamas' military infrastructure, which is often deliberately embedded within civilian areas.

Boots on the ground are not "more precise." Urban warfare in Gaza would likely lead to far higher civilian casualties, as seen in battles like Fallujah (2004) or Mosul (2017).

The responsibility for civilian deaths also rests on Hamas! They deliberately maximise civilian casualties for propaganda purposes, so the useful idiots in the West lap it up.
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You make better points but...

The first supposes that Hamas operate out of distinct camps that can be targeted. Nope. They are total bastards and hide in hospitals, schools, packed residential blocks and so on. So, what would the US, UK, France and any other more "civilized" nation do. Occupy and send in special forces based on good intel. What does Israel do. Bomb the hospitals, schools and packed residential blocks. And then turn round and blame Hamas for hiding there, state they only did it in "defence" and brand anyone who dares to disagree an antisemite and Hamas supporter.

Of course Hamas use the death of Palestinians for propaganda. They're c***s. But the "facts" they present cannot be verified or dismissed not just becuase of the inherent difficulties of doing so, but because Israel refuses to allow any journalist or independent verifier in. They do that as they have to mask their actions. If the international condemnation is bad now, wonder what it would be if it was CNN or ABC broadcasting the horrors. Or if the penny finally dropped and the 25% Christian right in the US finally realized that Israel are also killing Christians.

Supporting Israel in the face of all this must be exhausting.
 
Glazier#1 said:
Notice the way that, for some on here, being against the current Israeli government policy automatically makes you an antisemite. Not against government policy but a Jew hater.
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Or supporter of Hamas.

It is an extraordinarily tired, knee-jerk reaction from Israel to even the slightest criticism. They have a template reaction and simply press a button and repeat it when needed. It has no basis in any fact. They know that, anyone with education up to primary level knows it, my cat knows it and he's been dead 6 months.

Yet folk on here still parrot that obvious bollox as truth.
 
silvertop said:
You make better points but...

The first supposes that Hamas operate out of distinct camps that can be targeted. Nope. They are total bastards and hide in hospitals, schools, packed residential blocks and so on. So, what would the US, UK, France and any other more "civilized" nation do. Occupy and send in special forces based on good intel. What does Israel do. Bomb the hospitals, schools and packed residential blocks. And then turn round and blame Hamas for hiding there, state they only did it in "defence" and brand anyone who dares to disagree an antisemite and Hamas supporter.

Of course Hamas use the death of Palestinians for propaganda. They're c***s. But the "facts" they present cannot be verified or dismissed not just becuase of the inherent difficulties of doing so, but because Israel refuses to allow any journalist or independent verifier in. They do that as they have to mask their actions. If the international condemnation is bad now, wonder what it would be if it was CNN or ABC broadcasting the horrors. Or if the penny finally dropped and the 25% Christian right in the US finally realized that Israel are also killing Christians.

Supporting Israel in the face of all this must be exhausting.
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Not really. It's easy if you just consign all opposition to the 'antisemite' collective.

Especially easy for those, no names, whose mind is already made up with certainty on so many issues.

If you subscribe to the view "those on the left are all antisemites" and "all left wingers are wrong about everything" it's just simple: brooks no doubts, no arguments, no complications.
 
silvertop said:
Or supporter of Hamas.

It is an extraordinarily tired, knee-jerk reaction from Israel to even the slightest criticism. They have a template reaction and simply press a button and repeat it when needed. It has no basis in any fact. They know that, anyone with education up to primary level knows it, my cat knows it and he's been dead 6 months.

Yet folk on here still parrot that obvious bollox as truth.
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And that's because, most of the time, posters on here have no opposition from their mates. Echo. Echo. Echo. All so predictable, sadly.
 
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