Would our club have the necessaries for a mega-stadium ?

[dreamwaverider]

Of course, there are broadly two types of clubs with BIG Stadia....

a. Historic huge, likely not much mortgage anymore ( Newcastle , Staeu Bucharest, the Old Old trafford )

b. Likely swimming in debt.....new Everton, Spurs, Atletico Madrid.....

A big stadium is no guarantee of a big income stream that you can actually spend on players. Also your local economy & demographic will influence the kind of ticket prices you can charge. Do not be surprised if little Leyton Orient make more money on match-day - all those London city workers. Better than the giant stadium of Steua Bucharest which is mostly full of impecunious people.

It is no coincidence that the champions league top 16 rarely includes cities that are skint.

What about Real? Are they debt free?
Then there is Bayern's very impressive Allianz Stadium, one of their three heavyweight sponsors, Audi and Adidas the other two. 75000 capacity.

 

[Dogburger]

I've never understood what the issue with transport is?

There are 2 stations within 10 mins walk!

Whats the expectation? I cant remember ever going to an away ground and not having a 10/15 min walk.

The issue is standing at Thornton Heath station till gone 11 pm on a Monday night after a game trying to get back to East Croydon -Purley . Norwood I think is a bit better with the Thameslink service but having three stations within an easy walk isnt a lot of good if there are no f-ing trains !

 

[Dubai Eagle]

The issue is standing at Thornton Heath station till gone 11 pm on a Monday night after a game trying to get back to East Croydon -Purley . Norwood I think is a bit better with the Thameslink service but having three stations within an easy walk isnt a lot of good if there are no f-ing trains !

All 3 stations have either 2 or 3 trains scheduled to run in the direction you refer to ( between 22.00 - 23.00 hours) I semi regularly use either Norwood J or Selhurst & for the most part its fine - Presumably the Thornton Heath run suffers from being a regular service cut if for any reason there is a shortage of drivers.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

isnt a lot of good if there are no f-ing trains !

travelling up from Gatwick. If you arrive into East Croydon and miss your connecting train to Norwood Junction, its a bloody nightmare waiting for the next one. Especially at rush-hour.

 

[grumpymort]

They have tried for this already several times before - the main things preventing this were (in o particular order)

The NIMBYS - who seem to wield a disproportion amount of power, probably because they are very well organised to stop ANY development on 'their' park

Having to deal with the 5 Local Authorities that border the park - Bromley, Croydon, Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham. All of which would be involved in any move there, either for access, roadworks or the park itself.

Planning permission - well, Bromley is the main one for that I believe and they have no interest in facilitating Palace moving to Palace, as they have made plain before.

Getting past those has been tried and failed before, let alone the costs, not only of building the stadium but also those of the 'contribution(s)' for infrastructure costs to the LA's, who would doubtless all want a very large slice of that particular cake!

All of those are rumors and not correct.

Two former owners have spoke about the location and the authorities had no issue with a stadium the problem was the capacity limit which was from Noades own mouth 35 thousand which was too small he wanted minimum 40.

If we had people running the club who was very good at business we would have had no problems moving and sorting a deal out but we don't.

We have lots of evidence to back this up.

The govt had plans to redevelop the area and pump in a lot of money to bring athletics plus the area up to standards we should have jumping onboard that but we didn't.

To build a new 50 thousand stadium which I believe this would be our limit anyway is around 400 million with a built time of around 5 years.

The Palace way is to polish a turd and rebuild only 1 stand which is going to take around 4 years when they start and has a cost of around 150m to increase the capacity by only around 8 thousand.

 

[ASCPFC]

travelling up from Gatwick. If you arrive into East Croydon and miss your connecting train to Norwood Junction, its a bloody nightmare waiting for the next one. Especially at rush-hour.

I usually walk. There are also buses every two minutes, or Uber of course. Uber from Croydon to Selhurst less than 10 pounds. Walk time from East Croydon is about 24 minutes.

 

[est1905]

travelling up from Gatwick. If you arrive into East Croydon and miss your connecting train to Norwood Junction, its a bloody nightmare waiting for the next one. Especially at rush-hour.

If you leave from Three Bridges instead of Gatwick you can get a train that stops at Norwood Junction. No need to change.

 

[est1905]

All of those are rumors and not correct.

Two former owners have spoke about the location and the authorities had no issue with a stadium the problem was the capacity limit which was from Noades own mouth 35 thousand which was too small he wanted minimum 40.

If we had people running the club who was very good at business we would have had no problems moving and sorting a deal out but we don't.

We have lots of evidence to back this up.

The govt had plans to redevelop the area and pump in a lot of money to bring athletics plus the area up to standards we should have jumping onboard that but we didn't.

To build a new 50 thousand stadium which I believe this would be our limit anyway is around 400 million with a built time of around 5 years.

The Palace way is to polish a turd and rebuild only 1 stand which is going to take around 4 years when they start and has a cost of around 150m to increase the capacity by only around 8 thousand.

The time line might be about right but you are way off on cost. It cost Spurs £800m to build their stadium. With building costs growing by the day if we got permission to start work tomorrow it would cost a Billion minimum. And thats just the stadium. you cant only build a stadium in the middle of a neglected park and expect it to be a success. The entire area would need improvements/regenerating. That would probably be at least another £100m. Dont expect any help from Sadiq Khan! We'd end up having to find every penny ourselves

 

[NEILLO]

All of those are rumors and not correct.

Two former owners have spoke about the location and the authorities had no issue with a stadium the problem was the capacity limit which was from Noades own mouth 35 thousand which was too small he wanted minimum 40.

If we had people running the club who was very good at business we would have had no problems moving and sorting a deal out but we don't.

We have lots of evidence to back this up.

The govt had plans to redevelop the area and pump in a lot of money to bring athletics plus the area up to standards we should have jumping onboard that but we didn't.

To build a new 50 thousand stadium which I believe this would be our limit anyway is around 400 million with a built time of around 5 years.

The Palace way is to polish a turd and rebuild only 1 stand which is going to take around 4 years when they start and has a cost of around 150m to increase the capacity by only around 8 thousand.

Assuming that Noades in included in your claim about two former owners, who is the other one ? If it's Simon Jordan, much as i like the guy, ultimately he couldn't keep a hold of Selhurst Park let alone oversee a move to a new stadium.

And you are referring to events of over 20 and possibly as many as 30 years ago - to quote Rachel Reeves, '' the world has changed ''. I can't evidence possible changing in planning regs etc. over those years, but then it looks like you already have '' lots of evidence '' already - looking forward to you sharing with us.

You continue to critisise Parish and co for being no good at business as though you are some sort of guru on the subject. Which you very clearly are not.

And talking of being good at business, that wasn't very shrewd on Rons part to miss the opportunity to increase the capacity to 35k which is what the proposed new stand would almost give us. Not like him to miss a trick - if that was ever truly the case.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

All of those are rumors and not correct.

Two former owners have spoke about the location and the authorities had no issue with a stadium the problem was the capacity limit which was from Noades own mouth 35 thousand which was too small he wanted minimum 40.

If we had people running the club who was very good at business we would have had no problems moving and sorting a deal out but we don't.

We have lots of evidence to back this up.

The govt had plans to redevelop the area and pump in a lot of money to bring athletics plus the area up to standards we should have jumping onboard that but we didn't.

To build a new 50 thousand stadium which I believe this would be our limit anyway is around 400 million with a built time of around 5 years.

The Palace way is to polish a turd and rebuild only 1 stand which is going to take around 4 years when they start and has a cost of around 150m to increase the capacity by only around 8 thousand.

If there was a will to build a new stadium with the relevant parties on board and the funding secured, I'm sure the club could be playing in a new stadium even with the new stand being built.

The trouble is that it would probably take 10 years to complete.

We can't wait that long to increase income and continue using the dilapidated main stand. If someone comes in with a plan, I'm sure that the £150 million the stand is costing will look like small change after we sold Selhurst and secured the £500 million plus it would likely cost for the new place.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Our ambitions will always be limited at Selhurst.

However I also note and appreciate the very real problems with moving to where we would need to be, which is back at our namesake's location.

At the moment we are a club that thinks of staying up as our ambition every season and have been very successful at doing that, thanks to our leadership.....But we ride the tiger every year.

Who knows maybe if we have a few good seasons higher up the table ambitions might start to look at things again.....but the numbers and time involved even in paying off a stand rebuild is scary....We haven't even done that yet.

 

[Xong Kudu]

I dream of a new 50,000 stadium with better transports links, open spaces, bars, a village atmosphere, maidens with big boobies and flowing dresses trying to catch my eye. South London deserves it. It could also host other events.

 

[silvertop]

Our ambitions will always be limited at Selhurst.

However I also note and appreciate the very real problems with moving to where we would need to be, which is back at our namesake's location.

At the moment we are a club that thinks of staying up as our ambition every season and have been very successful at doing that, thanks to our leadership.....But we ride the tiger every year.

Who knows maybe if we have a few good seasons higher up the table ambitions might start to look at things again.....but the numbers and time involved even in paying off a stand rebuild is scary....We haven't even done that yet.

Quite.

The earlier poster and his internal contradiction that our managers are inept but, at the same time, they should invest in a massive stadium is clearly not the way. Instead, they are seeking to build bit by bit, within reasonable means, with as much as they can get away with against a largely unsympathetic local planning authority and, as you say, without the long term certainty of EPL revenue flow.

We are not Liverpool or Spurs and do not want to be Everton.

It is hardly the management's fault they are also having to constantly adjust to the ever rising build costs.

 

[JHB]

Quite.

The earlier poster and his internal contraction that our managers are inept but, at the same time, they should invest in a massive stadium is clearly not the way. Instead, they are seeking to build bit by bit, within reasonable means, with as much as they can get away with against a largely unsympathetic local planning authority and, as you say, without the long term certainty of EPL revenue flow.

We are not Liverpool or Spurs and do not want to be Everton.

It is hardly the management's fault they are also having to constantly adjust to the ever rising build costs.

This is right. Honestly I think it would be a big struggle to make a new stadium pay back and not an especially financially sustainable decision. Look at Arsenal. A guaranteed Premier League club, challenging and getting into the Champions League. Yet there is plenty of evidence that building the Emirates held them back financially on the pitch for a decade or more.

It would probably take at least ten or fifteen years for a new stadium to pay back. If we got relegated in that time then it wouldn’t and we could well end up in financial strife. It would certainly limit or ability to compete financially.

Land is expensive in London, planning permission difficult and additional revenue opportunities harder for us given so much competition in London from already world class venues.

 

[NMPalace]

All of those are rumors and not correct.

Two former owners have spoke about the location and the authorities had no issue with a stadium the problem was the capacity limit which was from Noades own mouth 35 thousand which was too small he wanted minimum 40.

If we had people running the club who was very good at business we would have had no problems moving and sorting a deal out but we don't.

We have lots of evidence to back this up.

The govt had plans to redevelop the area and pump in a lot of money to bring athletics plus the area up to standards we should have jumping onboard that but we didn't.

To build a new 50 thousand stadium which I believe this would be our limit anyway is around 400 million with a built time of around 5 years.

The Palace way is to polish a turd and rebuild only 1 stand which is going to take around 4 years when they start and has a cost of around 150m to increase the capacity by only around 8 thousand.

they are not rumours and most are correct.

Crystal Palace park has been looked at a few times, including by SP, and it is a non starter.

The park is owned by Bromley Council (despite the park not actually being in Bromley as the park is on a site where 4 boroughs meet - the other 3 being southwark, lambeth and Croydon, i think).

They have no interest in it and the sports centre is in decline as is the park - dinosaurs and petting zoo etc. Now athletics in London can take place at the Olympic stadium there is limited role for the Palace stadium. The UK national championships are currently held at Manchester which has a 5k capacity.

Then there are the Nimby's which are a very organised and high profile group.

Then there is the road infrastructure, which is terrible. I used to live on Sydenham Hill, 1 mile from the park, and on a evening matchday i would do a massive detour to avoid the Palace parade else it would take me 1 hour to drive 3 or 4 miles.

Yes there is a train station right next to the park, but it is small and has a limited service.

When the cinema complex was proposed about 20 years ago they did their traffic assessment at 5 am (yes 5 in the morning) to get round the rush hour problems. This did actually get approved but it has never been built.

Whether you like it or not we will remain at Selhurst Park.

 

[Badger11]

I spotted this. The last graph is about the most successful club over the last 10 years based on average league position.

We creep in at no 10, not bad for a traditional yo yo club.

Which is the biggest football club in Britain?

We've ranked the top 10 clubs in Britain according to five different criteria but you can have your say too.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MrRobbo]

The issue is standing at Thornton Heath station till gone 11 pm on a Monday night after a game trying to get back to East Croydon -Purley . Norwood I think is a bit better with the Thameslink service but having three stations within an easy walk isnt a lot of good if there are no f-ing trains !

Why would you be standing at Thornton Heath till gone 11 pm? There are about 4 direct trains to Purley an hour from Norwood, literally couldn't be easier.

 

[ex hibitionist]

I dream of a new 50,000 stadium with better transports links, open spaces, bars, a village atmosphere, maidens with big boobies and flowing dresses trying to catch my eye. South London deserves it. It could also host other events.

that'd be the bar staff, hopefully with frilly white bonnets, laced-up corsets and holding flagons or tankards of frothy real ale, and we'd have a special bye-law so you could slap them on the bottom as they passed your table

 

[Davepalace707]

Back to the main point of the thread - what happens if you spend zillions on a mega stadium, and while it’s being built the top teams in the Prem break away and merge into an Arab funded Euro or Global Super League. If you think that won’t happen have a look at how rapidly the club World Cup is expanding and the prize money available. City and Chelsea can easily earn £100m each in July.

Lose the wealthiest six or so teams from the Prem, are you going to have the money coming into the future income stream to fund the stadium build? Are you going to fill it every week?

Massive gamble

 

[JHB]

Back to the main point of the thread - what happens if you spend zillions on a mega stadium, and while it’s being built the top teams in the Prem break away and merge into an Arab funded Euro or Global Super League. If you think that won’t happen have a look at how rapidly the club World Cup is expanding and the prize money available. City and Chelsea can easily earn £100m each in July.

Lose the wealthiest six or so teams from the Prem, are you going to have the money coming into the future income stream to fund the stadium build? Are you going to fill it every week?

Massive gamble

Even if that doesn’t happen there is no guarantee that EPL income will increase or even stay flat. Look at what has happened recently with Ligue 1 and Serie A TV rights and the declining valuation. That could easily happen in the EPL. In the last rights auction Sky were the only big bidder but they are losing TV customers as pay TV is in decline as a business model. Who is to say the next rights don’t see a significant value decrease and the clubs end up with less in their pocket?