Would our club have the necessaries for a mega-stadium ?

[PalazioVecchio]

The Spurs stadium, the mooted new Old Trafford, the Camp Nou etc......

All this talk of putting an extra terrace on here, and a few hundred more seats there.......are we thinking too small. Getting Selhurst to the dreamy heights of 33k ? An ambition way below that of Everton who are abandoning the undersized Goodison Park (39k ) - and they represent half the fans of a small city. Because.....

a) our geographic location has an enormous popuation, especially if we improved East-West Public transport links.

b) we always produce a good number, of fans, for any matches at Wembley.

c) why not.

I know its all a money game. And big investments are not easy to come by. But hypothetically, are there enough Eagles to make a go of this ? To service the debt ? West Ham seem to fill their taxpayer stadium every week.

Us staying in the Premier League means a full capacity stadium every time the Top 4 visit us. For a moment please forget planning problems and fights with supermarkets. Hypothetically on the site of the Crystal Palace Athletics track, or Selhurst, or Croydon.....whatever..... Would our fanbase make it long-term financially viable ?

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DenTyler]

It has always been suggested that our catchment area is enormous with no other clubs actually that close. I’m of the opinion that now we are an established premier league club and hopefully a top ten club at that and with the premier league being the premium product (whether you like it or not) it is, I’m of the opinion that ‘if you build it… they will come.

However, building at Selhurst is really just polishing a turd. The transport links are not great, parking is s*** and I’m sorry but Norwood… not the most glamorous location is it. (I say this as someone who grew up there).

A move to Crystal Palace park to the old athletics stadium would be amazing. It’s not going to happen but it would be great if done properly and we could really be the premium club this side of the Thames and I believe easily able to fill a 60,000 stadium.

 

[Davepalace707]

The Spurs stadium, the mooted new Old Trafford, the Camp Nou etc......

All this talk of putting an extra terrace on here, and a few hundred more seats there.......are we thinking too small. Getting Selhurst to the dreamy heights of 33k ? An ambition way below that of Everton who are abandoning the undersized Goodison Park (39k ) - and they represent half the fans of a small city. Because.....

a) our geographic location has an enormous popuation, especially if we improved East-West Public transport links.

b) we always produce a good number, of fans, for any matches at Wembley.

c) why not.

I know its all a money game. And big investments are not easy to come by. But hypothetically, are there enough Eagles to make a go of this ? To service the debt ? West Ham seem to fill their taxpayer stadium every week.

Us staying in the Premier League means a full capacity stadium every time the Top 4 visit us. For a moment please forget planning problems and fights with supermarkets. Hypothetically on the site of the Crystal Palace Athletics track, or Selhurst, or Croydon.....whatever..... Would our fanbase make it long-term financially viable ?

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It would be a gamble. You wouldn’t know if you could fill it until it was built. Looking at this list every club with a stadium over 40,000 has a bigger fan base than us, you would think. And also having a stadium over 30,000 is absolutely no guarantee of success.

 

[Dubai Eagle]

Open to being corrected here but I seem to remember that the full plan for the stadium redevelopment allowed for a capacity of around 40,000 (more or less) but it was decided to go forward in stages because of the risks involved in spending all that money on the stadium & being relegated mid build, ending up with a 40,000 capacity stadium with only a 20,000 crowd.

 

[Badger11]

It has always been suggested that our catchment area is enormous with no other clubs actually that close. I’m of the opinion that now we are an established premier league club and hopefully a top ten club at that and with the premier league being the premium product (whether you like it or not) it is, I’m of the opinion that ‘if you build it… they will come.

However, building at Selhurst is really just polishing a turd. The transport links are not great, parking is s*** and I’m sorry but Norwood… not the most glamorous location is it. (I say this as someone who grew up there).

A move to Crystal Palace park to the old athletics stadium would be amazing. It’s not going to happen but it would be great if done properly and we could really be the premium club this side of the Thames and I believe easily able to fill a 60,000 stadium.

The transport links to Crystal Palace are even worse so unless TFL have major plans I don't see it happening.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

The transport links to Crystal Palace are even worse so unless TFL have major plans I don't see it happening.

Selhurst is defo better. And a direct Tramlink connection circa Bromley would help. Plus another in the direction of Mitcham/Wimbledon.

Plus i agree with the comment above about a huge stadium being no guarantee of anything. Look at MK Dons......over 30k capacity and languishing in League Two. However, i wouldnt flick rubber bands at the idea of us living in something fit for the twenty-first century. Its upsetting to see kips like Sunderland with something that puts Selhurst Park to shame.

 

[crvenaeagle]

The Spurs stadium, the mooted new Old Trafford, the Camp Nou etc......

All this talk of putting an extra terrace on here, and a few hundred more seats there.......are we thinking too small. Getting Selhurst to the dreamy heights of 33k ? An ambition way below that of Everton who are abandoning the undersized Goodison Park (39k ) - and they represent half the fans of a small city. Because.....

a) our geographic location has an enormous popuation, especially if we improved East-West Public transport links.

b) we always produce a good number, of fans, for any matches at Wembley.

c) why not.

I know its all a money game. And big investments are not easy to come by. But hypothetically, are there enough Eagles to make a go of this ? To service the debt ? West Ham seem to fill their taxpayer stadium every week.

Us staying in the Premier League means a full capacity stadium every time the Top 4 visit us. For a moment please forget planning problems and fights with supermarkets. Hypothetically on the site of the Crystal Palace Athletics track, or Selhurst, or Croydon.....whatever..... Would our fanbase make it long-term financially viable ?

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would say not just any time a top four team plays, but any time another London team too.

It is frightening the thought of having a big crap empty stadium and massive debt though.
Coventry City built their stadium with delusional grandeur believing that it will double up as an events arena for all the world's most famous artists to perform at... In Coventry.

Imagine that, a bland, soulless bowl arena that according to transfermarkt they haven't sold out once since they built it.

 

[Eagleman13]

Selhurst is defo better. And a direct Tramlink connection circa Bromley would help. Plus another in the direction of Mitcham/Wimbledon.

Plus i agree with the comment above about a huge stadium being no guarantee of anything. Look at MK Dons......over 30k capacity and languishing in League Two. However, i wouldnt flick rubber bands at the idea of us living in something fit for the twenty-first century. Its upsetting to see kips like Sunderland with something that puts Selhurst Park to shame.

There already is a Tramlink to Wimbledon via Mitcham

 

[NEILLO]

The Spurs stadium, the mooted new Old Trafford, the Camp Nou etc......

All this talk of putting an extra terrace on here, and a few hundred more seats there.......are we thinking too small. Getting Selhurst to the dreamy heights of 33k ? An ambition way below that of Everton who are abandoning the undersized Goodison Park (39k ) - and they represent half the fans of a small city. Because.....

a) our geographic location has an enormous popuation, especially if we improved East-West Public transport links.

b) we always produce a good number, of fans, for any matches at Wembley.

c) why not.

I know its all a money game. And big investments are not easy to come by. But hypothetically, are there enough Eagles to make a go of this ? To service the debt ? West Ham seem to fill their taxpayer stadium every week.

Us staying in the Premier League means a full capacity stadium every time the Top 4 visit us. For a moment please forget planning problems and fights with supermarkets. Hypothetically on the site of the Crystal Palace Athletics track, or Selhurst, or Croydon.....whatever..... Would our fanbase make it long-term financially viable ?

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My view ;

a) geographical location yes. Transport links are totally out of the clubs control. So a non-starter from that perspective

b) every club has ' fans ' that come out for the Wembley games. At the National League play-off final last season, Bromley had around 15k supporters. Average home gate in L2 is something like 3k

c) see a and b.

The actual fan base would have to grow considerably to sustain a stadium of the size you are suggesting. West Ham have traditionally had a bigger fan base than us. Add in the ' tourists ' ( and there are plenty of them at West Ham ) and yes, they are filling a stadium which they famously blagged on the cheap - not a realistic comparison.

You say to forget planning issues etc., but they are inescapable issues that can't be avoided. There is no suitable space in Croydon that I'm aware of. Selhurst, well look at the time it's taken to get where the club is today just for one stand. And the CP Athletics track is on Bromley owned land and it's a well known fact that there is no appetite from that council to work with Palace on developing that site.

 

[ASCPFC]

I think maybe 45,000 would be fine and possibly even doable on our site. That way we'd get maybe 30,000 proper fans. A few thousand away fans and the tourists we see every week.
As for transport links, I keep on hearing it, yet there are countless buses and three, maybe four stations within walking distance. I think the stations could do with an upgrade but the links are there.
I often walk to and from East Croydon, it's not exactly that difficult. It's just that the other stations get so crowded - lazy bastards.

 

[crystal-purley]

My view ;

a) geographical location yes. Transport links are totally out of the clubs control. So a non-starter from that perspective

b) every club has ' fans ' that come out for the Wembley games. At the National League play-off final last season, Bromley had around 15k supporters. Average home gate in L2 is something like 3k

c) see a and b.

The actual fan base would have to grow considerably to sustain a stadium of the size you are suggesting. West Ham have traditionally had a bigger fan base than us. Add in the ' tourists ' ( and there are plenty of them at West Ham ) and yes, they are filling a stadium which they famously blagged on the cheap - not a realistic comparison.

You say to forget planning issues etc., but they are inescapable issues that can't be avoided. There is no suitable space in Croydon that I'm aware of. Selhurst, well look at the time it's taken to get where the club is today just for one stand. And the CP Athletics track is on Bromley owned land and it's a well known fact that there is no appetite from that council to work with Palace on developing that site.

 

[ex hibitionist]

Tony Pulis stated that if we were a top six club playing attractive football we'd get 50,000 a week. Bit of an exaggeration maybe but he clearly remembered the 40+k crowds we used to get for a London derby or big game. Steve Coppell described our fan base as being London theatre goers - we have out hard core 15-20 k and the fair weather lot from Surrey who glory hunt. In our claret and blue days we once got 49k at home to Chelsea in the cup and 22k at home to Forest the following Saturday. No owner has ever had the balls to go for it, we get a nosebleed when we're on the verge of getting sustained success - but I'd like us to have a 45k capacity instead of 35, but I doubt that's possible without moving from Selhurst, and when you consider how long it's taken to get the new stand started (which it still hasn't) how long would it take all the various parties to a agree the move back to Crystal Palace? Ten years minimum I'd say.

 

[crystal-purley]

Yes we would be able to fill a 34,000 stadium and if we stayed up for another 10 years I believe that an extra 7,500 would be built on top of the Sainsburys making 42,000. We would need the success to fill it but little acorns.

 

[Norbury Old Git]

My view ;

a) geographical location yes. Transport links are totally out of the clubs control. So a non-starter from that perspective

b) every club has ' fans ' that come out for the Wembley games. At the National League play-off final last season, Bromley had around 15k supporters. Average home gate in L2 is something like 3k

c) see a and b.

The actual fan base would have to grow considerably to sustain a stadium of the size you are suggesting. West Ham have traditionally had a bigger fan base than us. Add in the ' tourists ' ( and there are plenty of them at West Ham ) and yes, they are filling a stadium which they famously blagged on the cheap - not a realistic comparison.

You say to forget planning issues etc., but they are inescapable issues that can't be avoided. There is no suitable space in Croydon that I'm aware of. Selhurst, well look at the time it's taken to get where the club is today just for one stand. And the CP Athletics track is on Bromley owned land and it's a well known fact that there is no appetite from that council to work with Palace on developing that site.

I suspect some responders here are unaware of how well connected Crystal Palace Park is to the public transport system. There are four stations dotted around the Park with 12 platforms and 16 bus routes. This includes a bus terminus which would mean empty buses staring from there after a match. Three train operators run regular services from the area i.e Southeastern, Southern and Overground (TFL) to London Bridge, Victoria West Croydon, Orpington and Highbury & Islington and also interchange stations such as Bromley South, Clapham Junction, Norwood Junction and various underground stations. Other than the London Stadium, I don’t know of any other Premier League ground that is as well connected.

There are weaknesses in the current transport arrangements for Crystal Palace Park. Sunday services are poor, there is no tram link, direct service to East Croydon and Thameslink trains do not stop despite travelling through the area. There has been a tentative plan to extend the tram to the Park and after nationalisation of the railway companies it should be easier to arrange for more trains to stop on match days. This would substantially increase East Croydon connectivity. Anyway, despite having abysmal train connections to the 60k Tottenham stadium, LNER stop all 12 carriage long distance trains at Northumberland Park even though the platform isn’t can only accommodate 8!!!

Even in my lifetime Crystal Palace Park welcomed over 100k to motor racing events and until Covid the annual firework display accommodated 40k. Even now pop concerts are being approved by Bromley for many 10s of thousands with little local opposition.

There is now a tiny window to acquire the best footballing site in the area. The Government could override complaints as the opportunity to convert Selhurst Park into a housing estate for many hundreds of new homes with shopping and schooling facilities already in place would prove a massive incentive.

For those worried about filling the stadium consider the following. Palace still hold the record for the highest attendance (37k) and average attendance of a Division Four (League 2) team (19k+). In Division 2 (Championship) we regularly had crowds of over 40k and currently have one of the highest percentage attendance figures relative to ground capacity.

 

[Brinscalleagle2]

We did famously get over 50,000 in that game against Burnley back in the day. There would have been a lot of “ interested viewers “ amongst the die hard fans.However we might be surprised how many we could attract if like ,the other big teams , we were in Europe. If it were my money I would grow Selhurst slowly and only go big when we are constantly playing in the big time tournaments.COYP

 

[Brinscalleagle2]

Norbury You make a good point about Crystal Palace Park that land area is not going to be available for ever and fortune favours the brave bur it would need enormous investment way beyond that of a mid table Premiership team.COYP

 

[AkiRiihilatiTheGOAT]

The Spurs stadium, the mooted new Old Trafford, the Camp Nou etc......

All this talk of putting an extra terrace on here, and a few hundred more seats there.......are we thinking too small. Getting Selhurst to the dreamy heights of 33k ? An ambition way below that of Everton who are abandoning the undersized Goodison Park (39k ) - and they represent half the fans of a small city. Because.....

a) our geographic location has an enormous popuation, especially if we improved East-West Public transport links.

b) we always produce a good number, of fans, for any matches at Wembley.

c) why not.

I know its all a money game. And big investments are not easy to come by. But hypothetically, are there enough Eagles to make a go of this ? To service the debt ? West Ham seem to fill their taxpayer stadium every week.

Us staying in the Premier League means a full capacity stadium every time the Top 4 visit us. For a moment please forget planning problems and fights with supermarkets. Hypothetically on the site of the Crystal Palace Athletics track, or Selhurst, or Croydon.....whatever..... Would our fanbase make it long-term financially viable ?

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People forget that Everton is a massive club, it's just in a lull at the moment. I also hate the soulless bowls that are the Spurs Stadium and the new Goodison doesn't look particularly good for atmosphere either.

Part of the reason I love the idea of the main stand redevelopment is that it allows us to expand our capacity and modernise whilst also not sacrificing the soul of such a special and sacred place. With this redevelopment, we can compete with some of the big boys for stadium quality etc whilst keeping the Holmesdale intact.

Don't want a completely new stadium to be honest. Sounds like w***. And we wouldn't be able to fill it.

 

[Palacesince64]

It has always been suggested that our catchment area is enormous with no other clubs actually that close. I’m of the opinion that now we are an established premier league club and hopefully a top ten club at that and with the premier league being the premium product (whether you like it or not) it is, I’m of the opinion that ‘if you build it… they will come.

However, building at Selhurst is really just polishing a turd. The transport links are not great, parking is s*** and I’m sorry but Norwood… not the most glamorous location is it. (I say this as someone who grew up there).

A move to Crystal Palace park to the old athletics stadium would be amazing. It’s not going to happen but it would be great if done properly and we could really be the premium club this side of the Thames and I believe easily able to fill a 60,000 stadium.

Moving to Crystal Palace and rebuilding on the site of the old athletic stadium makes sense on every level so clearly it couldn’t ever happen!

 

[PalazioVecchio]

There already is a Tramlink to Wimbledon via Mitcham

i was saying, direct to selhurst. but yes you are correct.

 

[becky]

Moving to Crystal Palace and rebuilding on the site of the old athletic stadium makes sense on every level so clearly it couldn’t ever happen!

They have tried for this already several times before - the main things preventing this were (in o particular order)

The NIMBYS - who seem to wield a disproportion amount of power, probably because they are very well organised to stop ANY development on 'their' park

Having to deal with the 5 Local Authorities that border the park - Bromley, Croydon, Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham. All of which would be involved in any move there, either for access, roadworks or the park itself.

Planning permission - well, Bromley is the main one for that I believe and they have no interest in facilitating Palace moving to Palace, as they have made plain before.

Getting past those has been tried and failed before, let alone the costs, not only of building the stadium but also those of the 'contribution(s)' for infrastructure costs to the LA's, who would doubtless all want a very large slice of that particular cake!