War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

Yeah, and Putin did his bit in helping Britain leave the EU too. Don't tell me there wasn't interference.

Pick a side.

Aren't I allowed to pick the truth?

If our troops actually go into combat I'll always support them.

I'm just against stupid wars that have no gain and only costs.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

If Trump got what he wanted by getting European commitment then why suddenly cut off Ukraine? That makes no sense at all.

And you have to say that troops in is possible, or are you expecting America to only? It has to be credible to work, which funnily enough I don't consider nuclear weapons to be.

Europe out number and out gun Russia in regular forces without the US, and with far better tech. The only thing Europe doesn't beat Russia on is ICMBs, but since we're on the same continent doesn't really matter.

China isn't Russia's mate, the moment Russia is balls deep (they kind of are) then China will be making incursions into their former old territories out there I reckon.

Because all the time Ukraine thinks it can hold out they won't negotiate. Trump wants an end to the war. Whatever his personal ambitons are, surely that has to be good for all of us, except for maybe arms dealers.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Because all the time Ukraine thinks it can hold out they won't negotiate. Trump wants an end to the war. Whatever his personal ambitons are, surely that has to be good for all of us, except for maybe arms dealers.

Our socially liberal parliament have worked themselves up into such a lather over Ukraine that they sound like we are on some kind of war footing with Russia.....it's completely bonkers.

None of their sons would be going of course.....No doubt Dan and co are eager to be conscripted.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Our socially liberal parliament have worked themselves up into such a lather over Ukraine that they sound like we are on some kind of war footing with Russia.....it's completely bonkers.

None of their sons would be going of course.

No doubt.

I feel like this is some kind of international good cop, bad cop routine but I might be wrong.

Starmer is clearly trying to play the role of a modern day Winston Churchill, albeit one who is acting more like Stalin at home.

 

[Spindle]

But DEI and our woke establishment teaching self hating rot about our national identity has damaged the ability to fill our military and damaged its real world effectiveness.....The British state has more energy prosecuting former military than it has in ensuring they are strong.

Jaysley Beck suicide after sexual harassment = headline news and a high profile pursuit.

Meanwhile in 2023 there were over 500 suicides in the armed forces alone, which we know suicide is the most common cause of death in men under 50 years old. Of course, who cares.

 

[Spindle]

None of their sons would be going of course.....

 

[Stirlingsays]

Jaysley Beck suicide after sexual harassment = headline news and a high profile pursuit.

Meanwhile in 2023 there were over 500 suicides, which we know suicide is the most common cause of death in men under 50 year old. Of course, who cares.

I take your point.

However, it's also true that biologically men will always commit suicide more than women, that's nature.

That said, the way our system is set up it largely ignores the issue.

 

[Spindle]

Aren't I allowed to pick the truth?

If our troops actually go into combat I'll always support them.

I'm just against stupid wars that have no gain and only costs.

I certainly hope there's no combat and I don't expect our boys to actually be on the ground. In the first instance I would say the support comes from use of out forces which excludes being in Ukraine. And I would also like a slice of the pie minerals wise for doing so.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Trump has said he wants Europe to step up with defending itself. That is happening.
He also wants to save lives. Funding Ukraine to fight a war they cannot win will only prolong the war and cost more lives and money. Zelensky has been happy to sacrifice Ukranian lives and one might accept that from his perspective, it is right to defend his country, however, from the outside it is clear that negotiation is the only sensible approach at this stage.

It will be interesting to see Putin's response to the situation. I hope you are prepared to eat your words if Russia withdraws from most of Ukraine and we get a lasting peace.

The idea of putting British troops into Ukraine is utterly bonkers. I hope it's just a bluff.

Trump, and it seems you and the others supporting his approach here, fail to understand the fundamentals. Putin cannot be trusted. That has been proved many times. Now we have a US President for 4 years who cannot be trusted either.

Everyone wants peace but unless there are guarantees in place no peace is a real peace.

Many Americans understand this and realise that it’s ultimately in their interests to ensure they use their strength to help provide those guarantees. Not the MAGA types of course and they hold the ring for the moment.

It’s such a mess now that trying to anticipate what’s the likely outcome is impossible. Prevarication and delay to ride out the storm, see inflation rising in the USA cause dissatisfaction there which forces a reversal or even a successful impeachment could work.

 

[Spindle]

I take your point.

However, it's also true that biologically men will always commit suicide more than women, that's nature.

That said, the way our system is set up it largely ignores the issue.

Not only ignores it, it promotes it. Separate issue but....

Many men top themselves when their families and lives are destroyed by women who piss off and take everything, then get to bad mouth the guy enough to remove access to the kids too. I can tell you that I had a very real but thankfully short period where I was gonna do it myself when my ex wife wrecked everything and trotted off with half with a grin on her face. Looking back it's pretty frightening when you begin to plan it but deliberately don't tell anyone what you are thinking.

Society has allowed this s*** to be ok, it took a lot more to do decades back, and it's a reason for decadence and decline in my view. In my experience women are far more willing to put themselves before their family whilst men will be the opposite - this is just what I've experienced with friends and others I know over many years, generally speaking - try saying that on the BBS.

Back to Ukraine

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

No doubt.

I feel like this is some kind of international good cop, bad cop routine but I might be wrong.

Starmer is clearly trying to play the role of a modern day Winston Churchill, albeit one who is acting more like Stalin at home.

Making sure that someone has the ear of Trump is vital at the moment, even if the sight of the subservient behaviour is uncomfortable to witness.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Aren't I allowed to pick the truth?

If our troops actually go into combat I'll always support them.

I'm just against stupid wars that have no gain and only costs.

So is everyone!

You persistently write as though you are the only one who can see this.

The difference is not this at all.

The difference is that many believe that supporting a sovereign state defend itself from an aggressor who ultimately could threaten our more immediate neighbours, then ourselves and eventually the whole of the western world, is not stupid. There is much to be gained! Maintaining our freedom being the most obvious.

Trusting a dictator like Putin is the action of the seriously deranged. MAD has worked. Bringing us closer to actually having to rely on it is the policy of the madhouse.

 

[becky]

Trump, and it seems you and the others supporting his approach here, fail to understand the fundamentals. Putin cannot be trusted. That has been proved many times. Now we have a US President for 4 years who cannot be trusted either.

Everyone wants peace but unless there are guarantees in place no peace is a real peace.

But would it not be Putin giving those guarantees? The same Putin that you say in the paragraph above cannot be trusted? Nor can Trump - so what price those guarantees of real peace?

 

[eaglesdare]

Let's just forget about peace. Keep the war going and let it escalate to WW3.

Seems to be what people want at the moment 🙄

 

[Spindle]

Interesting vid for those not familiar with European kit

Part 1 Major arms (fighters, arty and MBTs)

Part 2 Minor arms (APCs IFVs SAMs)

Part 3 Drones and anti-drones

Part 4 Naval power

And as I always said to the MAGA idiots who think that they're giving away stuff to the Ukrainians, it's great business for the USA. The guy puts a bit of politics in it but ignore that or take it, this is really about the facts on the weapons systems.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Let's just forget about peace. Keep the war going and let it escalate to WW3.

Seems to be what people want at the moment 🙄

We might as well, the country has been loony tunes for frigging ages.

Yeah, feck it, like Kenny Everett said, 'let's bomb Russia'.

Maybe if we are lucky they will wipe Bradford off the map.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

But would it not be Putin giving those guarantees? The same Putin that you say in the paragraph above cannot be trusted? Nor can Trump - so what price those guarantees of real peace?

It can only be the west as a whole, including the USA, who guarantee that should Ukraine’s integrity be threatened again, let alone her be invaded, that there would be a united, if unspecified, response.

Without the USA’s involvement such a promise becomes much less tenable. Splitting the west being a key precursor of Putin’s strategy, him becoming best buddies with Trump is shameful to witness. He must hold something over him. It makes no sense otherwise.

Trump could commit the USA to playing a role but instead he has reneged on the commitments made by his predecessors.

Putting your country first is what every leader is expected to do. Making it hated, untrusted and abdicating its position in the world is a very short sighted way of doing so.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Apparently you're meant to be really angry about Russians in Ukraine.....but you know those grooming gangs they were covering up for decades....those thousands of rapes, still on-going.....Don't write any spicy tweets about them because 'tut tut'.....Don't be angry about that....be angry about Vlad.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

So Zelensky is suddenly becoming all cooperative. Funny that.

Something people need to understand is that this war has been an unmitigated disaster for Putin. He thought he could stroll in to Ukraine and take Kiev overnight. Thanks to resistance from the Ukraine army and a good supply of weapons and tactical advice from the West, he has been bogged down and forced to consider compromise.

If he keeps a bit of Ukraine land and agrees to peace, everyone can claim victory.

 

[Stirlingsays]

So Zelensky is suddenly becoming all cooperative. Funny that.

Something people need to understand is that this war has been an unmitigated disaster for Putin. He thought he could stroll in to Ukraine and take Kiev overnight. Thanks to resistance from the Ukraine army and a good supply of weapons and tactical advice from the West, he has been bogged down and forced to consider compromise.

If he keeps a bit of Ukraine land and agrees to peace, everyone can claim victory.

On the battlefield Russia are advancing between 10-30 square km a day.

I keep hearing from western commentators that Russia are bogged down.....but when you actually look at battlefield reports it's been steady progress for them for a long time.

Russia haven't really been looking for a peace deal, it's Trump that wants out.....Ukraine want to find some way of dragging the US into the war as it's their only way of getting their land back, but Americans dying in Ukraine just isn't going to happen....it wasn't even going to happen with Biden.

Europe really messed this up.