Spindle
Member
- Country
England
That just seems to be very corrupt. For a moment I thought he might be falling on his sword for the nation to redeem himself - this certainly isn't the case.
War in Ukraine
- Topic starter DANGERCLOSE
- Start date
That just seems to be very corrupt. For a moment I thought he might be falling on his sword for the nation to redeem himself - this certainly isn't the case.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
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England
Why can’t people see there will never be an end to this war until Putin is either dead or replaced and no guarantees then either. This being a war that extends well beyond Ukraine.
There might be pauses engineered by Putin to allow rebuilding of the military wrapped up in rhetoric and “peace agreements” which allow Putin’s puppet in the White House to claim he has solved another problem and to start him salivating over a Peace Prize but real peace, not a chance.
The problem is, always has been, and always will be, that you simply cannot trust the word of Putin. He just breaks it. Negotiations are merely tactics for him, opportunities there to be exploited.
The only way to handle this is to continue to resist. If that means, for the next three years, doing it without the help of the USA that’s what must be done. It’s costly and awful but the ultimate cost of not doing it is much worse.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Basically your politics are disastrous.
Just the stereotypical old boomer calling for the young to die for nothing.
Hardly anything you push pans out and the costs of your politics are state destroying.
Just another day for you.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
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England
I don’t want anyone to die. Wherever they live. Resisting Putin doesn’t necessarily involve large scale armies, but resist we must. It isn’t for nothing. It’s for everything. Do you seriously want to stand back and just trust Putin to keep his word?
Perhaps you would actually prefer for us to be governed by a mafia of Putin supporting oligarchs. One in which opposition isn’t tolerated and those who try don’t live long. One in which the media only report what they are told to report in the way that’s approved by the President.
Assuming Putin has no more ambition than securing his western border against an advancing NATO is transparently naive. He lies. He cannot be trusted. He has previous. It’s not real.
We must draw a line and defend it. In 3 years time we can hope that unconditional support from the USA will resume as they turn away from the Trump disaster.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Yet another combination of self contradictory word salads that mean nothing, commit to nothing practical and just involve your usual whining.
When it came to practical steps on their conflict all your choices from supporting the rejection of the 2022 peace deal (which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives to possibly over a million). With that deal Ukraine got to keep most of their territory and had a chance to be a viable state......if that deal had been taken Ukraine would have a generation of young men able to give it a future....Now it's fecked whatever happens.
Another is you supporting all the wasted billions upon billions that the taxpayer will never get back from a losing war.....You backed a war that was always a long shot and has cost us dearly in several arenas.....and all you have for it are emotional arguments.
The world would just be a better place if most politicians came onto Hol just to look at what your take and judgement was on a particular issue just so they could could take the opposite action.
From your track record it would be a good idea and turn them into highly successful governments.
Fair enough I have a pea shooter somewhere and a copy of Boys Own that I can wave at him that should do it.
Zelenesky is a jew and the Jews support their own I thought they would! 👍
Why should he be prosecuted Putin is the aggressor.
ASCPFC
Member
- Location
- Pro-Cathedral/caravan park
- Country
Ireland
I guess Russia might kill him anyway? Radiation or an accident. It's hardly beyond the realm of possibility. Plus, if someone else did it, fingers would point at Russia anyway. I meet loads of Ukrainians all the time, I'll have to ask their opinion of Zelensky.
eaglesdare
Member
- Country
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England
Well...one might say Putin was reacting to the aggression shown by EU and nato expansion?
(Obviously there is no excuse for Russia invading ukraine and I don't condone it with thousands of lives lost)
Where to begin...
Perhaps he fears that he could potentially be prosecuted for:
- Embezzling funds
- Cancelling elections
- Harassing/persecuting political opponents
- Forced conscription/on-street kidnappings
- War crimes against the Russian minorities in Ukraine, prior to Russian invasion
- His alleged stash of Bolivian marching powder
- Being a shite comedian/actor/puppet
All just alleged by bad-actors, of course. We all know he is a virtual saint.
Not much substance there big on gossip.
georgenorman
Member
- Country
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England
Also, it is complete you know what.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
I understand it, I just don't think it was worth it.
I don't think anyone involved in it does either.
Ultimately I blame Bush's state department for taking the decisions that led here.....and of the incoming administrations not changing tack.....but no one in Europe was prepared to say no, though many raised doubts.
As for Russia, no one can say they didn't warn of this war many years ago, they signposted very clearly.....but I think they feel it was a mistake as well.
They expected the west to be rational and to make peace in 2022......But we didn't have rational leaders.
The problem with Russia 'drawing lines in the sand' is that eventually it kind of had to act on the breaches, or it would massively lose face.
The problem with NATO/EUs constant expansionism, posturing and meddling is that eventually someone would genuinely call them out on it with actions, not just words.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
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England
As nothing of this long winded diatribe addresses the actual point, why didn’t you simply agree that you would prefer to live under Putin and save us all a lot of time?
Criticism of me is neither the subject nor does it explain how any deal, at any time, involving Putin can possibly be trusted.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
If Russia were convinced that the intent of the neocons in the State Department was to forment regime change in Russia and break Russia up....with the massive resource gains and reduction of competition that would mean.....then it's obvious that Russia would regard Ukraine as a red-line (as it's been said many times if Ukraine went western it's five hours drive to Moscow....no chance to respond to missile launches from that close).
If I were the Russia leader I'd think that too.
This is ultimately the fault of the chain of events that led to Europe relying upon a foreign country with changing demographics as its security guarantor.....Over time the percent of important people with apathetic attitudes towards Europe or ethnicity hang ups about Europe ruled the thinking.....which again feeds back to decisions taken in WW2 but then cemented by short term thinking by neoliberals later on.
Out sourcing your security (not that I think Ukraine was the hill to die on at all) is the type of thing you get when your society is ruled by 'line go up' types.