War in Ukraine

Wait, you think that we just paid for these weapons and handed them over by the billions?

Out of date and obsolete stock, we'd have had to either pay to destroy, or give to Ukraine to use. And kit scheduled for replacement and upgrade .It was bought 20+ years ago FFS, that's the "bill" the mugs think came out of their wages yesterday. There's very little cutting edge kit in Ukraine, and of what there is, it's been sold to them.
 
Trump has proposed that the EU place 100% secondary tariffs on China and India who are financially proping up the russian economy.After The drone attack on Poland yesterday Nato must be seen to give more to Ukraine in response.
 
Spindle said:
Wait, you think that we just paid for these weapons and handed them over by the billions?

Out of date and obsolete stock, we'd have had to either pay to destroy, or give to Ukraine to use. And kit scheduled for replacement and upgrade .It was bought 20+ years ago FFS, that's the "bill" the mugs think came out of their wages yesterday. There's very little cutting edge kit in Ukraine, and of what there is, it's been sold to them.
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You don't need up to the minute equipment to conduct terror attacks dude.

It's a corrupt country and some of that stuff will be sold to groups who use it against our guys.

If we had stayed out of this crap between foreign states, none of it would happen.....When we get attacked I'll bring up this point then.

Zero gain, only costs.
 
Make a deal with Russia.

Trade with Russia.

Bring prices down.

Let the US state department pay for Ukraine (yes I know that won't happen).....they were the ones with the hard on for confronting Russia the most. They are the ones who benefit the most from it breaking up. They now get to sell us more expensive energy.

We are just the stooges.
 
beak said:
Interesting for an avowed neutral country. The Drone into Roumania shows Russia has intentions further afield thean Ukraine given a fair wind they would like to visit Paris.It is imperative that Russia gets knocked back.
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Russia has been flying bombers over Irish airspace on and off for about twenty years. It never caused anyone to call for war. Although our President sent a strongly worded letter. He was pissed when he found out we have a secret deal with Britain for air defence. We pay for the jets that are scrambled. Oh sorry, secret - my bad.
 
ASCPFC said:
Russia has been flying bombers over Irish airspace on and off for about twenty years. It never caused anyone to call for war. Although our President sent a strongly worded letter. He was pissed when he found out we have a secret deal with Britain for air defence. We pay for the jets that are scrambled. Oh sorry, secret - my bad.
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When i originally heard that I understood that a lot of the Irish public did not like it but against certain enemies all hands to the pump,stop the fire first and then argue the small print!
 
beak said:
When i originally heard that I understood that a lot of the Irish public did not like it but against certain enemies all hands to the pump,stop the fire first and then argue the small print!
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The President didn't like it for a start. Our government won't mention it for obvious reasons. There was a court action - likely silenced.
The truth is we don't want to pay for anything. Perhaps you can lend us a few jets and pilots? Maybe some radar, a couple of ships and a few tanks? Honest, I won't spend the money on drink.
Our politicians have to find the right supplier. The one that won't deliver but you pay them twenty times over what you should. Pocketing half the money in offshore accounts. Whilst the people just ignore it as "it's a great little country" and we are now the world's moral police. Pat ourselves on the back Pat.
 
ASCPFC said:
The President didn't like it for a start. Our government won't mention it for obvious reasons. There was a court action - likely silenced.
The truth is we don't want to pay for anything. Perhaps you can lend us a few jets and pilots? Maybe some radar, a couple of ships and a few tanks? Honest, I won't spend the money on drink.
Our politicians have to find the right supplier. The one that won't deliver but you pay them twenty times over what you should. Pocketing half the money in offshore accounts. Whilst the people just ignore it as "it's a great little country" and we are now the world's moral police. Pat ourselves on the back Pat.
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I can warmly recommend Michelle Mone , do you need any PPE? "There is nothing like a Dame" to be pacific ,south pacific. 😆
 
Ukraine has been turned into the ultimate welfare state....as I said it would......it needs constant money to even operate.

It's tax finance committee has announced that Ukraine does not yet have the funds to cover the $10 billion hole in the budget for next year.

Meanwhile....

Russia has reached a production of 30,000 strike drones per year and is preparing to double output in 2026, — The New York Times

They report that in 2025 Russia launched over 34,000 drones and decoys at Ukraine — nearly 9 times more than in the same period last year.

Not my war....It's America's proxy war that they shouldered onto Europe, who can neither afford it or carry it out.

If we didn't have social liberals leading Europe this would have never have happened.

If Farage and Le Penn were in charge we would have an agreement and lower prices already.
 
What deal do you expect them to get when you just said Europe can't handle it?

They wouldn't get a deal would they, they'd get shafted.
 
Spindle said:
What deal do you expect them to get when you just said Europe can't handle it?

They wouldn't get a deal would they, they'd get shafted.
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Europe is going to get shafted any which way this winds up Spindle.....That's what I've been complaining about for years.

That was ensured when Biden/Johnson didn't push for the deal Russia had on the table just a few weeks after the war started. Now, what Ukraine will get will be exponentially worse and they won't be in a position to do much about it.....And we in Europe will be forced to pay to keep their economy going.......All while having to borrow at increasing interest rates just to pay for our own economy.....France on the brink economically as well, Germany in recession.

It's nuts.

However, it's not just economic costs, when I said Europe can't handle it I was also speaking about the human costs of getting involved in Ukraine. There isn't the level of interest required to accept the blood price to push Russia back.....You might be but most people aren't engaged.
 
Ukrainian Finance Minister Marchenko answered the question of what he would want for Ukraine if he had a magic wand:

"Money. We need more money (in 2026) than this year. There was more this year (than last year). We have not yet seen the final stage of this war."

According to him, Ukraine lacks at least $16 billion.

Get used to be expected to further stump up, year on year, for foreign economies (we are already in hock to) so our leaders can puff their chests out at big foreign leadership events......All while old granny can't pay her heating bills.

It doesn't stop after this stupid war....fiscal commitments made mean we are a major part of this for a long time.

If we were Poland I'd understand a little better but our exposure in this war goes deep and anyone thinking its about morality is mostly wrong.....It's more about stupid financial commitments and the need to keep onside with our masters.
 
Politico is reporting that the EU will not present the 19th sanctions package against Russia on September 17. Saying it has been postponed indefinitely.

Weird, something obviously going on in the background....I could speculate but it really could be several things or none of them.

Perhaps it's just a temporary delay......But something's up obviously.
 
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky following his meeting today with U.S. President Donald J. Trump:

'Trump realized that Putin was sharing with him information about the battlefield situation that was far from the truth. Now he trusts me much more because the information our intelligence possesses, we share with our partners. In September, we de-occupied 360 km² and we control a certain number of Russian soldiers who were encircled.'

Eh? 360 km²?

I follow the war, I have no idea what he's talking about.
There must be something I'm unaware of or he's telling lies.

This ''encirclement'' is almost certainly Tyotkino, right on the border of Sumy and Kursk Oblast, it is not encircled, it juts out into Ukrainian territory, and Ukraine has spent months bombing it because the Russians keep sending conscripts into the town to maintain a presence.

And this claim of territory ''taken'', Ukraine has pushed back Russians in small tactical terms on the Sumy front, but anything Ukraine has retaken there, has been lost, multiple times over, across the rest of the front from eastern Kharkov to Zaporozhia

But maybe heavily slanted Nato diplomats and Zelensky have managed to convince Trump that Ukraine has inflicted an operation 'success' or something on Russia.

God knows.
 
What's far more likely is as predicted Trump has waffled his way out of the costs of Ukraine, dumping them all onto Europe (which it walked into). He'll sell you arms and energy (much more expensive) but he isn't going to get involved.

This was long predicted as soon as Trump entered the White House for the second term, yet instead of preparing Europe wasted its time trying to convince Trump to turn into Biden.

Trump keeps blaming Biden for the war in Ukraine and he's not wrong about Biden's terrible tenure and involvement in Ukraine. However, the Ukraine disaster stated with Bush policy in 2008 and carried on with Obama's support and interference into Ukraine leading to the 2014 coup, which they largely funded. Without continual state department policy this war would have never happened.

Regardless of that Europe's leaders played along and ended up here. Now our leaders talk about the world as if Europe have endless resources to recreate other parts of the world in their own socially liberal image. Not only is it foolhardy it's a license for failure and ruin.

Each week/month they pick up huge amounts of money....Yet the results don't deserve it at all...These are average politicians gifted hugely important positions with far more responsibility than their talents deserve.
 
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Stirlingsays said:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky following his meeting today with U.S. President Donald J. Trump:

'Trump realized that Putin was sharing with him information about the battlefield situation that was far from the truth. Now he trusts me much more because the information our intelligence possesses, we share with our partners. In September, we de-occupied 360 km² and we control a certain number of Russian soldiers who were encircled.'

Eh? 360 km²?

I follow the war, I have no idea what he's talking about.
There must be something I'm unaware of or he's telling lies.

This ''encirclement'' is almost certainly Tyotkino, right on the border of Sumy and Kursk Oblast, it is not encircled, it juts out into Ukrainian territory, and Ukraine has spent months bombing it because the Russians keep sending conscripts into the town to maintain a presence.

And this claim of territory ''taken'', Ukraine has pushed back Russians in small tactical terms on the Sumy front, but anything Ukraine has retaken there, has been lost, multiple times over, across the rest of the front from eastern Kharkov to Zaporozhia

But maybe heavily slanted Nato diplomats and Zelensky have managed to convince Trump that Ukraine has inflicted an operation 'success' or something on Russia.

God knows.
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Tactical withdrawal is better than collapse and can be used as an advantage, especially with intelligence information. Don't take loss of an area as a loss, Ukraine have been giving Russia Phyricc victories
 
Spindle said:
Tactical withdrawal is better than collapse and can be used as an advantage, especially with intelligence information. Don't take loss of an area as a loss, Ukraine have been giving Russia Phyricc victories
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I keep hearing this but there's no actual proof of it.

Russia out gun Ukraine and out drone them and out man them.

I have little doubt there are thousands on both sides dying each week, but Russia can bear that while Ukraine not really.....not and have an economic future as....Well, Ukrainian.

They are going to get fully 'Blackrocked'.....Diversity enhanced and alphabeted.....and be so much poorer......and they never even had a vote on it.

Regardless, while I care about the loss of Europeans on both sides of this....unlike most who have commented for continuing the war I don't particularly care who wins this war or which slav owns what part of Ukraine.

I care about how this effects my country and all this has zero upsides and just costs.

What is the point of this war for the working class Brit? Other than virtue signalling over not liking Putin?

It's been nothing but lies from the start.
 
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