War in Ukraine

[Eagleman13]

Yes they used Exocet from Super Etendard but I wasn't referring to those, and we had a rift with France over it, but other ships were hit too except unlike an anti ship missile there was no detonation. Had there been you'd have seen huge casualties and the Skyhawks would've moved on to new targets, instead of persisting.

Thatcher loved dictator Pinochet because he parked his army on the Argentine border for us, so that kept Mirage at home instead of joining in the attacks, and it's a far superior machine.

Had we lost most of the landing fleet do you think we'd have persisted? I don't. There wouldn't have been enough force to take out the remainder, Thatcher would've bought it in the commons (highly unpopular at the time, the victory saved her), and some deal would've been reached a la Zelensky

Did you have a moustache at the time? I bet you did 😉

No, I didn't have a 'tache, we're not allowed them in the Royal Navy, full set or clean shaven.

The argies used the Mirage as their main attack aircraft & out of the 75 aircraft they lost 19 of them were mirages.

 

[cryrst]

I recall saying it was the allies that won, and it wasn't Russia as claimed. I also said that Russia would've likely been beaten by Germany if not for the allies. So we're in agreement.

I thought he winter weather was germanys main enemy. Like it was for the French under napoleon. Just remembering my history lessons from school.

 

[Spindle]

Fair enough.

However, the way it is handled was fully supported by just about every Labour activist out there. The vast bulk of the Labour party see it exactly how Starmer saw it and I might add to that the vast bulk of our judiciary.....who are also mostly higher middle class Labour supporters....at least on social policies.

Even our Police are effectively filtered to remove right wing opinions and are subject to DEI and other left wing social policy training.

Yup, they didn't read the room and are so hell bent on being nice they don't realise that they are not being nice. I don't blame Labour entirely, they have only just arrived. Our opinion polls are reflective of Europe and the USA

 

[Spindle]

No, I didn't have a 'tache, we're not allowed them in the Royal Navy, full set or clean shaven.

The argies used the Mirage as their main attack aircraft & out of the 75 aircraft they lost 19 of them were mirages.

Alright we're at cross purposes. When I mean Mirage I mean a Mirage, and the Argies used them as CAP only because they didn't have the range, they were the older models.

You are referring to the Dagger, which is a Mirage but it also isn't one because it's an Israeli Nesher. Yes those flew attack missions with the Skyhawks, formally not Mirage's though, it just looks like one but everything in it is different. It's like we can't call a Skoda a VW I guess.

 

[Eagleman13]

Alright we're at cross purposes. When I mean Mirage I mean a Mirage, and the Argies used them as CAP only because they didn't have the range, they were the older models.

You are referring to the Dagger, which is a Mirage but it also isn't one because it's an Israeli Nesher. Yes those flew attack missions with the Skyhawks, formally not Mirage's though, it just looks like one but everything in it is different. It's like we can't call a Skoda a VW I guess.

No, I am NOT referring to the Dagger, I am referring to the Mirage. Don't try to spout stuff you know nothing about. I was there, remember that.

 

[Spindle]

I thought he winter weather was germanys main enemy. Like it was for the French under napoleon. Just remembering my history lessons from school.

I'm sure it had an effect, but it wasn't a deciding factor.

Bony arrived in Moscow to find it deserted, the Russians just ran east and destroyed all of the food they could on the way.

 

[Spindle]

No, I am NOT referring to the Dagger, I am referring to the Mirage. Don't try to spout stuff you know nothing about. I was there, remember that.

And you were a rower, not in the RAF.

The IAI NESHER is an IDENTICAL airframe to the Mirage 5 but with an Israeli built engine, avionics, radar and (some) weapons, and it was sold to Argentina in the 70s where they renamed it the DAGGER. It took part in the ship attacks, BECAUSE it had the range to do so.

The actual Mirage's of the Argentine airforce were IIIE's which is an older design with inferior avionics, radar, and importantly RANGE. For that reason they flew CAP at altitude with a couple of IR missiles and a pair of fuel bags so they could get there. The Fleet Air Arm just decided not to engage them and stayed low down well out of the range of their IR missiles.

I respect that you were there but it doesn't change the fact that you saw the IAI Nesher (aka Dagger) and not a Mirage. It looked like a Mirage but it wasn't one.

 

[Eagleman13]

And you were a rower, not in the RAF.

The IAI NESHER is an IDENTICAL airframe to the Mirage 5 but with an Israeli built engine, avionics, radar and (some) weapons, and it was sold to Argentina in the 70s where they renamed it the DAGGER. It took part in the ship attacks, BECAUSE it had the range to do so.

The actual Mirage's of the Argentine airforce were IIIE's which is an older design with inferior avionics, radar, and importantly RANGE. For that reason they flew CAP at altitude with a couple of IR missiles and a pair of fuel bags so they could get there. The Fleet Air Arm just decided not to engage them and stayed low down well out of the range of their IR missiles.

I respect that you were there but it doesn't change the fact that you saw the IAI Nesher (aka Dagger) and not a Mirage. It looked like a Mirage but it wasn't one.

You are an idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about. At least you have the intelligence to Google stuff that is not pertinent to the conflict almost 43 years ago, are you that old, I suspect not.

When I was young, I was taught a phrase, this applies to you, " Oh lord, help me to keep my big mouth shut, until I know what I'm talking about" take heed.

You were not there, I was. I was also a CPO( Google it) with the comms/radar where 8 sailors died when the Exocet missile penetrated our mid- ships, severed some high pressure lines & like uncontrollable hoses wreaked havoc inside the housing we were in.

So, play nicely or go away. OK.

 

[Spindle]

You are an idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about. At least you have the intelligence to Google stuff that is not pertinent to the conflict almost 43 years ago, are you that old, I suspect not.

When I was young, I was taught a phrase, this applies to you, " Oh lord, help me to keep my big mouth shut, until I know what I'm talking about" take heed.

You were not there, I was. I was also a CPO( Google it) with the comms/radar where 8 sailors died when the Exocet missile penetrated our mid- ships, severed some high pressure lines & like uncontrollable hoses wreaked havoc inside the housing we were in.

So, play nicely or go away. OK.

I'm sorry you're upset and I respect the fact that you signed up for military service and happened upon a war, but that doesn't mean you are the font of knowledge on this. I've always had an interest in aviation, do a lot of mil sim, so I tend to read a lot on it and have done since I was a kid. It does mean I'm a bit of a plane spotter and although you might think this unworthy it means that, actually, I might be right on this. If this was about ships I wouldn't have any clue whatsoever, I couldn't tell a type 23 from a type 42.

Of course nobody has a database for a brain and the internet is there as a resource to check things out, so you can feel free to check it out yourself, rather than mock it because frankly, that's a poor place to defend from. If you want to disagree with Wikipedia and the dozens of other sources then feel free to get in touch and fix these inaccuracies, you can tell them that you were there in a radar room at the time as a source of fact but I don't think that makes a jot of difference because unfortunately your claim that Mirage 5's were attacking ships in San Carlos bay is simply misunderstood because of what I've already said. Also I wasn't even being nasty about it, I actually pointed out that I could see where you got the idea from, it's you that has got upset. If I saw a Japanese F.2 I wouldn't call it an F-16 you see, nor would I call a Spanish Ha-112 Buchon a Bf-109. Likewise many US soldiers in Normandy often claimed they were facing German Tiger I tanks. They weren't, because none were there initially, but they did face a lot of late Panzer IV's with the 75mm gun and these look quite similar to Tigers although far smaller. So it's an easy mistake to make.

Palace won today, try and enjoy it.

 

[becky]

Perhaps also take the discussion elsewhere, as it has nothing to do with the War in Ukraine - the title of THIS thread!

 

[kevlee]

Perhaps also take the discussion elsewhere, as it has nothing to do with the War in Ukraine - the title of THIS thread!

Becky, there is an awful lot on this and other threads, often in the political section that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic!!
But nice to see you make an appearance all the same.

 

[becky]

Becky, there is an awful lot on this and other threads, often in the political section that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic!!
But nice to see you make an appearance all the same.

Yes, I know and it's impossible to stop it (and a little 'meandering' off topic is fine now and then) but sometimes it just gets too far off and takes over the thread and that's when I try to get it back on course.

 

[Spindle]

I do have one connection though. The Super Etendard's that the Argentines used are potentially being given to Ukraine because Argentina, who've been under embargo of their air forces ever since, are finally, desperately, updating it.

That's the only connection I can make I'm afraid.

 

[Eagleman13]

Perhaps also take the discussion elsewhere, as it has nothing to do with the War in Ukraine - the title of THIS thread!

Sorry.

 

[totoshkin]

Sorry.

These pedantic arguments are so boring so well done Becky for calling them out. Why, oh why, do so many posters on here revert to slagging off anyone who has a contrary opinion. That is one reason I do not engage more than I do. Oh, we were superb this afternoon.