Villa v Maccabi

[ASCPFC]

Someone should really film walking around Birmingham dressed as an orthodox Jew. However, it would be pretty dangerous. I suppose the police would arrest you for causing a disturbance whilst asking the Muslims with knives and bats to put them away.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Someone should really film walking around Birmingham dressed as an orthodox Jew. However, it would be pretty dangerous. I suppose the police would arrest you for causing a disturbance whilst asking the Muslims with knives and bats to put them away.

They might, but not for causing a disturbance.

They might, for your own safety or because they regard your presence as likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Anyone using anything to injure or threaten another would be arrested.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Because it's not obvious. You have some very odd takes.

It is totally obvious from everything I have ever said on the subject, let alone the comments in this thread. I have consistently separated criticism of the Netanyahu government from any criticism of Jews. The first is thoroughly justified because of politics. The second isn’t, because it would be anti-Semitic.

 

[ASCPFC]

They might, but not for causing a disturbance.

They might, for your own safety or because they regard your presence as likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Anyone using anything to injure or threaten another would be arrested.

So you wouldn't have a right to the freedom to walk unhindered in your own country? Exactly why would that be? Your answer is unacceptable in a secular country.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It is totally obvious from everything I have ever said on the subject, let alone the comments in this thread. I have consistently separated criticism of the Netanyahu government from any criticism of Jews. The first is thoroughly justified because of politics. The second isn’t, because it would be anti-Semitic.

Hardly surprising due to your Jewish blood.

 

[ASCPFC]

At least it's been made clear that there are places where Jews can't go freely in the UK. We can move onto other religions next. Christians are obviously not of the correct religion - so they need not travel to West Midlands away games. Or else.
Perhaps start including other areas. Like Hounslow or Bradford. Certainly Southall. We could put up signs in Yiddish and Hebrew - in order to be inclusive. "Enter here and you are causing the disturbance of other people trying to kill you for your religious beliefs. You will be arrested and charged for your own safety".
I fail to see how any of this at all is acceptable.
The West Midlands police I used to know would say "the away fans are coming, get over it. Get in our way and we stomp you. In fact, we'll likely just beat you anyway if we so decide. And we'll fit you up with whatever we like."

 

[Teddy Eagle]

They might, but not for causing a disturbance.

They might, for your own safety or because they regard your presence as likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Anyone using anything to injure or threaten another would be arrested.

What happens if Jewish people already live there? How do they leave the house without getting done for causing a breach of the peace?

 

[ASCPFC]

What happens if Jewish people already live there? How do they leave the house without getting done for causing a breach of the peace?

I expect they've already left, don't you? Unless they have secure compounds. Or they just hide their Jewishness? As, of course, is entirely correct apparently. As it is their presence that causes the issue. Not the people who can't accept the law of the land.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

So you wouldn't have a right to the freedom to walk unhindered in your own country? Exactly why would that be? Your answer is unacceptable in a secular country.

Of course you have such a right.

The police though also have the duty to ensure the peace is kept. So temporary interruptions of rights can become necessary in order for the police to fulfill their duties.

It’s nothing unusual or controversial. It just is.

 

[ASCPFC]

Of course you have such a right.

The police though also have the duty to ensure the peace is kept. So temporary interruptions of rights can become necessary in order for the police to fulfill their duties.

It’s nothing unusual or controversial. It just is.

It didn't seem the usual for decades before. I wonder what changed?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Hardly surprising due to your Jewish blood.

It has nothing whatsoever with anything genetic. You acquire beliefs through culture only.

In my case as I experienced only a Christian culture in my childhood your suggestion is doubly nonsensical.

My views come solely from my own reasoning.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

At least it's been made clear that there are places where Jews can't go freely in the UK. We can move onto other religions next. Christians are obviously not of the correct religion - so they need not travel to West Midlands away games. Or else.
Perhaps start including other areas. Like Hounslow or Bradford. Certainly Southall. We could put up signs in Yiddish and Hebrew - in order to be inclusive. "Enter here and you are causing the disturbance of other people trying to kill you for your religious beliefs. You will be arrested and charged for your own safety".
I fail to see how any of this at all is acceptable.
The West Midlands police I used to know would say "the away fans are coming, get over it. Get in our way and we stomp you. In fact, we'll likely just beat you anyway if we so decide. And we'll fit you up with whatever we like."

Well West Ham moved so…

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It didn't seem the usual for decades before. I wonder what changed?

Nothing. It has always been the case. Maybe not always applied as rigorously by the police who themselves have refined their behaviour.

 

[ASCPFC]

Nothing. It has always been the case. Maybe not always applied as rigorously by the police who themselves have refined their behaviour.

Absolute rubbish and you know it. Whatever you are or how you look, you should be able to go anywhere in a "free" and particularly a secular country. The church was disestablished some time ago. Yet now, religion is a deciding factor again. Should have just kept the established church if this is the case. Clear discrimination.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

At least it's been made clear that there are places where Jews can't go freely in the UK. We can move onto other religions next. Christians are obviously not of the correct religion - so they need not travel to West Midlands away games. Or else.
Perhaps start including other areas. Like Hounslow or Bradford. Certainly Southall. We could put up signs in Yiddish and Hebrew - in order to be inclusive. "Enter here and you are causing the disturbance of other people trying to kill you for your religious beliefs. You will be arrested and charged for your own safety".
I fail to see how any of this at all is acceptable.
The West Midlands police I used to know would say "the away fans are coming, get over it. Get in our way and we stomp you. In fact, we'll likely just beat you anyway if we so decide. And we'll fit you up with whatever we like."

You are describing different situations!

You proposed an individual dress as an Orthodox Jew and deliberately walk in an area where their presence is likely to be unwelcome. Removing them for their own safety and not confronting those likely to be upset would be the most effective way for the police to handle that.

Large groups of fans would need to be handled differently.

 

[ASCPFC]

You are describing different situations!

You proposed an individual dress as an Orthodox Jew and deliberately walk in an area where their presence is likely to be unwelcome. Removing them for their own safety and not confronting those likely to be upset would be the most effective way for the police to handle that.

Large groups of fans would need to be handled differently.

Yes, don't let there be more than one Jew. People will be thinking it's a replacement or an insidious plot.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Absolute rubbish and you know it. Whatever you are or how you look, you should be able to go anywhere in a "free" and particularly a secular country. The church was disestablished some time ago. Yet now, religion is a deciding factor again. Should have just kept the established church if this is the case. Clear discrimination.

That is simply untrue. Religion has nothing to do with this.

The police decide on the risks involved and the best course of action needed to avoid them. They put religion and politics aside. That’s nothing to do with them. They are for politicians to consider.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It has nothing whatsoever with anything genetic. You acquire beliefs through culture only.

That's not exactly true

Genetic studies prove that inheritance of tendencies and attitudes are also genetic much in the same way that offspring tend towards other similar patterns of inheritance. It's by no means exact but it comes through in the data.

This is true even for twins separated at birth and raised apart so it's not just culture handed down by parents.

So you're just fundamentally wrong as usual.

In my case as I experienced only a Christian culture in my childhood your suggestion is doubly nonsensical.

Sure, you experienced it only to wish for its destruction as an adult.

My views come solely from my own reasoning.

No doubt, but the problem is that the reasoning is faulty.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Yes, don't let there be more than one Jew. People will be thinking it's a replacement or an insidious plot.

If there were a group of people wearing any obviously religious dress seeking to walk through an area where such activity was likely to provoke, or intended to provoke, breaches of the peace then action would be needed. Not though just the removal of an individual. More likely a request for the redirection of the walk or, if refused, the forcible redirection.

That applies to everyone, whether they hold any kind of belief or not.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That's not exactly true

Genetic studies prove that inheritance of tendencies and attitudes are also genetic much in the same way that offspring tend towards other similar patterns of inheritance. It's by no means exact but it comes through in the data.

This is true even for twins separated at birth and raised apart so it's not just culture handed down by parents.

So you're just fundamentally wrong as usual.



Sure, you experienced it only to wish for its destruction as an adult.



No doubt, but the problem is that the reasoning is faulty.

Tendencies and attitudes are NOT beliefs. They affect behaviour, personality and values. These can certainly be found in siblings, let alone identical twins. Belief is acquired.

I don’t want Christianity destroyed. I want it to be an entirely personal matter, shared only with fellow believers and removed from public life, schools and the affairs of state. Along with all other religions.

By what authority do you assume the right to determine my reasoning?